Bob, You are correct, the price I listed was not Airpair, and it didn't include all costs such as install kits. I mistakenly had AirPair in my mind, because I also had one in hand on loaner.
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Moldashel" <lakel...@gbcx.net> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? > Tom, > > I will get you off list regarding the Manhattan work. > > As far as the 300 Mb link you got it should be a Horizon radio not an > Airpair. I don't have the slightest idea how you ever got that price > from someone but it was an exceptional deal. MSRP for a 200 Mb standard > (not high power) with 2' antennas and install kits is $19,500. Consider > another $1k for for the additional 100 mb of bandwidth and $1k for high > power and you are looking at a $21,500 MSRP. Given your purchase price > that equals a 50% or so discount on the product. This is not the > Dragonwave normal discount. > > Bob > > > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: >> Bob, >> >> I have a customer in NY, (near United Nations area.), I'm trying to close >> deal on. >> Originally I was jsut planning on buying a 100mbCogent link from a near >> buildings, and Tlink45ing to it, Since prospect needs 30mbps. >> >> I saw you mentioned "Manhatten". Do you accept T&M wireless field service >> work? If so, what are your rates? >> I might as well ask... Do you wholesale Transit? >> >> PS. The last 300mbps Airpair 23Ghz w/2ft dishes, that I bought (this >> month), >> I paid $10,800 (with Hi-power) NEW. >> My Trango Apex w/ dish (same spec), I paid $8600 new (this month). >> $10,000 >> really isn't a steal anymore for used gear, if its a savy buyer. >> You were asking a "fair" price, but it was not a "steal". >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bob Moldashel" <lakel...@gbcx.net> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] BS....was Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >> >> >> >>> Hey Adam, >>> >>> I am curious as to why you are saying the used Dragonwave deal didn't >>> pan out??? >>> >>> I still have the system here and Mario can have it any time he wants. >>> 200 Mb full duplex with his choice of used 4' or new 2' antennas. I even >>> offered to deliver it to your office over 100 miles away from me at no >>> charge. >>> >>> According to Mario the "deal breaker" was I was not going to let him >>> take the link, install it, and "try it" for a week or two and then let >>> him make his decision. He says he was worried about "interference". >>> Well I have more than forty 23 Ghz. links in midtown Manhattan without >>> issue so I doubt you guys are going to have any problems getting a clean >>> channel in rural Kingston NY. >>> >>> $10K for a Dragonwave Airpair that is a little over a year old with a >>> choice of either 4' or 2' antennas is a steal. This link sells for >>> $20K+. >>> >>> The real issue was not interference. It was money. It's really a shame >>> Mario couldn't tell me that instead of using interference as an excuse. >>> >>> If anyone else wants this link I will let it go to them for $9K until >>> February 10th. Get me offlist >>> >>> lakel...@gbcx.net >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> >>> Adam Greene wrote: >>> >>>> Hey all, >>>> >>>> Following up on this thread ... >>>> >>>> First off, thanks to those who've offered advice off-list. It's been >>>> very >>>> helpful. >>>> >>>> Looks like we're seriously considering Trango Apex 18GHz ... our used >>>> Dragonwave lead didn't pan out. >>>> >>>> A couple other options have come up, too: E-Band's E-Link 1000 (~75GHz >>>> licensed, at a promotional price) or Cablefree G1500 (a 780nm FSO >>>> product). >>>> >>>> Anyone have any experience / feedback regarding either of these two >>>> products >>>> (or companies)? >>>> >>>> Again, we're trying to create a 1.2 km urban link in an ITU-R rain >>>> region >>>> K >>>> zone, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of reliability, and >>>> sub-$13k >>>> (price is an object). >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> You can go Dragonwave 24 Ghz Unlicensed >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gino A. Villarini >>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>>>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Adam Greene >>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 2:41 PM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>> >>>>> Just to resuscitate this thread ... >>>>> >>>>> We have a 1.2Km urban link, really only need 100Mbps, need ~5 9's of >>>>> reliability. >>>>> >>>>> We have deployed Mikrotik 5.3GHz and Radwin 5.3GHz and are getting >>>>> interference. We've also gotten interfered with on Alvarion VL 5.8. >>>>> >>>>> We'd like to do 80GHz Bridgewave, but it's too expensive. >>>>> >>>>> 60GHz Bridgewave doesn't have enough reliability according to the link >>>>> budget calculations. >>>>> >>>>> Without actually taking a spectrum analyzer to the location, what >>>>> suggestion would anyone have about the best frequency & radio to >>>>> deploy, >>>>> to minimize interference issues, get ~100Mbps throughput and not pay >>>>> more than ~$13,000 (including advance replacement warranty)? >>>>> >>>>> We're thinking Trango Apex or Dragonwave ... >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Adam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> >>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 10:56 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Half mile? Ours is almost 2.5miles in an RF unfriendly rain zone. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> The >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> link >>>>>> has been up for more than a year and the client has been thrilled. >>>>>> So >>>>>> thrilled in fact that we've got another planned for them with a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> roadmap of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> more to follow. >>>>>> >>>>>> They're happy with the price and we're happy with the profit at that >>>>>> price. >>>>>> No reason to race to the bottom with yet another product when the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> market >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> clearly supports the current price point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again, what are the options available today that can produce 1Gbps >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> with >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> AES256 encryption at line speed? The encryption alone can be valued >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> at >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> $10k >>>>>> - $20k depending on who you ask. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Brad >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> On >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:24 PM >>>>>> To: can...@believewireless.net; WISPA General List >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>> >>>>>> I fully agree. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'll add... the value of millimeterwave is 80Ghz, to actually have a >>>>>> license >>>>>> >>>>>> for next to free. The FCC created that for provider's benefit, not >>>>>> for >>>>>> manufacturers to charge us more and put the savings in their pockets. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> The >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> truth is that 80Ghz takes the same cost to make as 60Ghz. But for >>>>>> some >>>>>> reason the manufacturers try to charge s premium, a lot more for the >>>>>> 80Ghz. >>>>>> I get pissed off everytime I think about it. It just holds the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> industry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> back >>>>>> >>>>>> for no good reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> We aren't to the $8000 figure yet including licenses, but we are >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> getting >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> really close with Trango Apex's. Its just a matter of time, before >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Trango >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> adds 24Ghz to their line. And Dragonwave is doing 24Ghz pretty darn >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> close >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>>> the goal. Thats my point on why 80Ghz vendors need to get it >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> togeather >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> rethink their business plans. Their high profit ride on the >>>>>> specialty >>>>>> short >>>>>> >>>>>> range market, isn't going to last forever, when 24/23Ghz can do it >>>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 1/3 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the price. Most people would rather save money. >>>>>> >>>>>> They are going to have to bring 80Ghz to the $8 range to keep making >>>>>> sales, >>>>>> before to long. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not knocking the Bridgewve technology, its a great product. Sure >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> for >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> that half mile link, it can really get the highest capacity to its >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> buyer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> But how many of those $30k links will a WISP need? Maybe 1 or 2? I >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> can >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> count 500 buildings off the top of my head that can justify use of a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> $10k >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> radio. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "can...@believewireless.net" <p...@believewireless.net> >>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 8:52 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> A customer came to us looking for gigabit speeds between buildings >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> had >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> the money to pay for it. So, we quoted an 80GHz link w/2ft antennas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> with >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> over 2 hours of down time and a licensed Dragonwave link that would >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> do >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> 300Mbps w/5 minutes of downtime at half the price. >>>>>>> Once they saw both in the proposal, the response was, "We really >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> don't >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> need >>>>>>> a full gigabit. 300Mbps should be fine." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have both 60 and 80GHz Bridgewave links and Trango Giga and Apex >>>>>>> links. >>>>>>> Bridgewave's are definitely the way to go for short hops where they >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> are >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> cheaper than doing a licensed link. However, if Trango or >>>>>>> Dragonwave >>>>>>> offered a 24GHz link that could do 100Mbps or more for $8k, we'd be >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> all >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> over >>>>>>> it and almost never think of Bridgewave. Obviously Bridgewave's >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> SLE100 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> do it at that price, but even in our urban environment, customers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> tend to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> outside of the 1/2 mile range. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Tom DeReggi >>>>>>> <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Brad, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well, it can't with 2 radios. But it can with Dragonwave DUO >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> combining 4 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> links for a total of 1400mbps. And Trango Apex at 700mbps is >>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>> pretty >>>>>>>> close. >>>>>>>> But that is not my point. I personally do not think that peak >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> capacity >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>> the big factor in a buying decission for WISPs.. >>>>>>>> Once you are in the 400mb + range, over subscription is your >>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What matters is getting distance, and increasing reliabilty, and >>>>>>>> affording >>>>>>>> to buy and install as many links as possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WISPs don't need 1GB, but they could benefit from 80Ghz. Bridgewave >>>>>>>> needs >>>>>>>> more affordable 80Ghz models, that compete with the speeds that >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> Apexes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Horizons can deliver. This is exactly why Bridgewave has been left >>>>>>>> behind >>>>>>>> this year in sales. WISPs are telling BRidgewave to take a hike, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> embracing companies like Trango and Dragonwave, that have >>>>>>>> technology >>>>>>>> less >>>>>>>> trouble to deploy. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure if you need 1GB, and its to the building down the street, OK >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> then, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Bridgewave can win that one. But 99% of the links that need to be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> bought >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> deployed, don't need to be 1GB. I'd rather pay 1/3 the price, and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> get >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>> ROI in one year. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bridgewave also has a hidden cost. The cost to pay for speed before >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> you >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>> it, before customers are reimbursing you for it, and the finance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> costs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>> Its ironic to pay finance costs on bandwdith before it is even >>>>>>>> being >>>>>>>> used. >>>>>>>> If I have a ROI of one year, I have a much lower finance cost per >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> link. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure >>>>>>>> if you have a RUS loan at 3-5% that probably isn't a bad problem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> But at >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> typical lease fees (20%), that adds up to easily doubling the cost >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> procurement over 3-5 years. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've always felt Bridgewave to be overpriced, and because of they >>>>>>>> attempt >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> get top dollar for the rare circumstances where it is worth that, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> they >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> loose >>>>>>>> huge amounts of market share, to companies like Trango and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> Dragonwave, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> fit a much wider set of diverse needs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "Brad Belton" <b...@belwave.com> >>>>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 5:49 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Last I checked the DragonWave fell short of BridgeWave in raw >>>>>>>>> throughput/payload capacity. The AR80X-AES we have deployed will >>>>>>>>> produce >>>>>>>>> line speed 1000Mbps with AES256 encryption. I don't think >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> DragonWave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>> pull that off. If so, please share the details as we're close to >>>>>>>>> deploying >>>>>>>>> another BridgeWave link. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Brad >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:34 PM >>>>>>>>> To: 'WISPA General List' >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tom, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The last quotes I have done have put Bridgewave much cheaper than >>>>>>>>> Dragonwave >>>>>>>>> for 1.2Gpbs... although Dragonwave by far has a range benefit to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> Daniel White >>>>>>>>> 3-dB Networks >>>>>>>>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On >>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 2:51 PM >>>>>>>>>> To: lakel...@gbcx.net; WISPA General List >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bob, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think you are right. (To give Ceragon credit where credit is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> due). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Although, I'm positive Dragonwave was the first to do it with >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> 366mbps >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> per >>>>>>>>>> radio ODU with Ethernet. >>>>>>>>>> Ceragon was stuck at 200-250mbps per ODU for a while there. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Its important to note that breaking the 350mbps barrier, and >>>>>>>>>> radio >>>>>>>>>> combining >>>>>>>>>> (for double) was a core accomplishment, that put the value >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> proposition >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> 6-23Ghz above that of inexistence 80Ghz technology with multiple >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> hops, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> deliver near equivellent capacity, at lower cost. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: <lakel...@gbcx.net> >>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 3:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I believe (but not sure) Ceragon was the first with a DPRM >>>>>>>>>>> mount. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But agree with everything else >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tom DeReggi" <wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:32:12 >>>>>>>>>>> To: WISPA General List<wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Good advice Bob, but I'll add.... There is a purpose for each >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> model, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> that matter also a specific manufacturer, and all ODU is not >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> always >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>>>>> choice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For example... Trango boasts several core benefits, for some >>>>>>>>>>> circumstances. >>>>>>>>>>> Its Giga Split archetiecture allows Coax installs to extend up >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1000ft. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (Dragonwave's Coax split Archetecture, still has limits to >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> 150-200 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> feet or >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> so, according to their docs.). Trango's Apex allows optional >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Fiber >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> termination with a very easilly accessible connectors. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> (Dragonwave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> other hand has the Fiber connectors poorly located, that require >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> taking >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> case apart in order to reach them.) Because of this, for long >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> cable >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> deployments, I prefer Trango. Or if on short deadline, and Freq >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Coords >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> complete, Trango equipment can be ordered in advance of >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> completion >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> because >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> they can support more channels per ODU model. (For example, 18 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 23 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ghz >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> only have one ODU Pair choice). Its also important to note, it >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> be midunderstood the purpose of Trango Gigas's 4 ports. They are >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Private >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> VLAN. This is really great for when a link needs to be shared. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> For >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> example, >>>>>>>>>>> Port 1 for the customer that paid to get the link installed. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Port2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ISP's other traffic to serve other clients in the building. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> This is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> enabled >>>>>>>>>>> with zero complexity, that way. The far end switch/router >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> equipment >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> need configuration or being the same to accommodate segregation. >>>>>>>>>>> This >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> useful for all installs, but in some cases, this is a unique >>>>>>>>>>> benefit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dragonwave offers different benefits... For example... The >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Airpair >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> supports >>>>>>>>>>> a whole wealth of different ODU Radios that can be interchanged >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> with >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Indoor rack unit. If one doesn't buy advanced replacement >>>>>>>>>>> warrantees, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> much cheaper to just order in an ODU seperately, than a Full >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> outdoor >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> radio. >>>>>>>>>>> I'd rather float $3000 to get a replacements ODU in, than >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> $12,000 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> full >>>>>>>>>>> Horizon. We'd use All ODU models where we have live backup >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> links in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> place, >>>>>>>>>>> and can afford to wait for a Manufacturer replacement. With >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> said, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>>> love All ODU units, it makes for a much quicker/simpler install, >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Zero >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Footprint needed inside. This is great for MTU buildings, where >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> they >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> be installed in small closets, or penthouse walls. The >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Dragonwaves >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> were >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> first to be able to combine radios for double the capacity, so >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> more >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> expandabilty. Airpair offers 25% more capacity than the Trango >>>>>>>>>>> giga, >>>>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>>>> split archetecture is needed. Dragonwave offers a dealer >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> channel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>>> that will benefit from it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tom DeReggi >>>>>>>>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>>>>>>>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Bob Moldashel" <lakel...@gbcx.net> >>>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:37 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ceragon, Dragonwave and whatelse? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Well....a couple of notes... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I personally would use an all ODU version because it makes >>>>>>>>>>>> servicing >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> breeze and also swapping out a bad radio quick and simple. No >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> guessing >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> about is it the indoor unit, is it the outdoor unit, is it the >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> interface >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> cable??? Get an all ODU like the Dragonwave Horizon and you >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> run >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> CAT5 >>>>>>>>>>>> and you're done. If you get a cable issue you either can't log >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> no handshake with your switch/router or..If one of the POE >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> lines >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> bad >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> your radio will continue to reboot. Troubleshoot the radio on >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ground >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a patch cable and you rule out your cabling system. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like was mentioned elsewhere here if you are concerned with >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> theft >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> can lock the radios in place. This can be done by putting a >>>>>>>>>>>> security >>>>>>>>>>>> screw in place of the grounding screw and use a cable assembly >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> lock >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> it up. If the theft concern is that high you should probably >>>>>>>>>>>> consider >>>>>>>>>>>> another location. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With weather being a concern you could always install a second >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> parallel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> link on the same antenna using a DPRM mount. Then if one link >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> fails >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> other could be engaged to carry the traffic. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I do not see this link really working (high 9's reliability) >>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 4' >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> antennas. That of course leads to new mounting issues. At 6 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Ghz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> are looking at 6' minimum dishes. Figure 600-800 lbs per >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> antenna >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> mount not to say the least about cost, shipping and >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> installation. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I personally like Dragonwave for 2 reasons. 1 - The service >>>>>>>>>>>> facility >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> in this part of the hemisphere which allows me to get equipment >>>>>>>>>>>> overnight in emergencies. 2 - One year advanced replacement is >>>>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>>>> $500/year per radio. Allows me to sleep easily. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This does not mean I do not like Ceragon. They are just doing >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> some >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> growing pains things at the moment and most of the stuff is >>>>>>>>>>>> serviced >>>>>>>>>>>> overseas unless it is an interface or something simple. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dragonwave support is very responsive though you do have to >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> leave >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> name with a service and they call you back. I have installed >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> more >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 45 Dragonwave links in the past 2 years and have only had 2 >>>>>>>>>>>> failures. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There are other options but history, price or delivery will >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> kill >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> an option. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And stay away from equipment that does switching for you. Do >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> all >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>>>> control external to the radio. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Bob >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Paolo Di Francesco wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear All, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> we are considering to move to licensed frequencies for back >>>>>>>>>>>>> hauling >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore some hints would be really appreciated. We are >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> looking >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> main manufacturers (Ceragon/Dragonwave) so the problem is >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> "which >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>>> fits better for our needs"? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just to summarize: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a) links are around 20-25 miles >>>>>>>>>>>>> b) antennas: the smaller the better >>>>>>>>>>>>> c) robustness is very important >>>>>>>>>>>>> d) average life: 3 years >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >From what I have read in the data sheets I have done the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> following >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> considerations: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Dragonwave Horizon is nice but only if your site is well >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> protected >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from "sabotage and stealing". The "all outdoor" approach is >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> nice >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> has the drawback that if somebody takes the whole unit they >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> will >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> have a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brand new unit working. With the IDU/ODU approach they will >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> have >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> half of the "banknote", so after the first or second time, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> they >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> spend time having something useless. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) Dragonwave Horizon can be a problem if you don't use fiber >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> from >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> unit down to your switch. In few words, we have sites with >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> huge >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> amount >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> or EM fields, so even using shielded cables (e.g. Belden >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> 1300A) we >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> only few ethernet megabits. So we should use fiber to go up >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> tower, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but maybe be IDU/ODU approach is more robust (comments >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> welcome). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) All outdoor means that when you have to re-use the devices >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> somewhere >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> else, you have to buy a whole new thing instead of just >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> swapping >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ODU. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) In any case the (all outdoor or IDU/ODU) when the tower is >>>>>>>>>>>>> frozen >>>>>>>>>>>>> (and when I mean frozen I mean a whole block of ice) then it >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> does >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> change much, you have to wait the better season to work on >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> that. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) Performances look more or less the same. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) I don't know much about prices, I have looked on some >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> website, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> am >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> still exploring this aspect >>>>>>>>>>>>> 7) Is anybody using the software-switch capabilities on this >>>>>>>>>>>>> devices >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just using them as transparent bridges for your router/switch? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Do >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to reset them often? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Comments are welcome. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I missing some other good brand? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG. >>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Date: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1/17/2009 >>>>>>>>>>>> 5:50 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG. >>>>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1/19/2009 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 9:37 AM >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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Join today! >>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG. >>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1/19/2009 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 9:37 AM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG. >>>>>>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release Date: >>>>>>> 1/19/2009 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 9:37 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ---- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> -------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG. >>> Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: >>> 2/2/2009 >>> 7:51 AM >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.16/1930 - Release Date: 2/2/2009 > 7:51 AM > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
