Travis, not everyone is in the middle of nowhere Idaho shooting from mountain top to mountain top with very little noise over 1 75 mile hop :) I have a feeling many people on this list would DIE for that kind of environment.
Now, I have to say there will always be a place for certain products to fit in and admittedly my case was pretty general. On the flip side though, I think it does pertain to a lot of [typical] situations we come across on a daily/weekly basis. None of us can come up with a "one size fits all" because there will always be those outside cases but we can generalize for certain scenarios. For example, check out the post I just put up. Pretty standard 12 mile shot that we messed around with. Predictably, the real killer is noise. -Jeff CTI "There is a Difference" -----Original Message----- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 12:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed Jeff, I think you have made a fine point. I realized about a year ago that with the cost of licensed links coming down, there wasn't a lot of reason to look at the high-end UL radios anymore. When a StarOS or MT setup will deliver 30-50meg of FD throughput at a very low cost, the next logical step is to go with a 100MB licensed link. I have a couple of my consulting clients that have been dumping their Moto BH links in favor of StarOS because it is cheaper and quite a bit faster, but we have also found a few situations where we need more speed, and going licensed just makes way more sense than spending that much money on a UL link. I do see Travis's point about the longer range shots, however. I've got a 35, 45 and 65 mile shots with StarOS and they work just fine but only put out about 18-25meg at those distances. That's enough for me, but I can see where you would want more capacity and I suppose that within that narrow definition, a PTP600 would be better than a licensed link. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Travis Johnson wrote: > Jeff, > > First let me say we LOVE our Trango licensed links. However, the one > issue you are not taking into account is distance. I just did a path > calc on a 73 mile 5ghz link we have now using a PTP600 and it looks > really good.... there is no way to do that shot with 11ghz (believe > me, if I could I would). > > So, distance may be a limiting factor when considering licensed vs. > unlicensed. We won't talk about my 32 mile, 18ghz licensed link (using > 2ft dishes) with 99.99% reliability. ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Jeff Ehman wrote: >> Since it is Friday and I am bored >> >> Here's some interesting points >> >> 11 GHz Licensed Radio >> - 220 Mb (110 FD): -76 dBm >> >> PTP600 >> - 300 Mb (150 FD): -59.1 dBm >> - 200 Mb (100 FD): -68.1 dBm >> >> 12 Mile Shot - Availability for both systems using 2' dishes is 99.999% -- >> but we may need larger dishes for 5 GHz to account for interference and >> noise (while in the licensed band, interference and noise doesn't exist) >> >> Assuming no noise for PTP600 >> - 2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 200.68 Mb >> (~100 Mb Full Duplex) >> - 4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 287.69 Mb >> (~140 Mb Full Duplex) >> >> Now, since the PTP600 requires 30 MHz of spectrum and BOTH polarities, it's >> safe to assume that generally speaking, we should plan for a minimum thermal >> noise floor of -80 dBm - adding that into the equation, our calculation now >> shows the following >> - 2' (28 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 109.03 Mb >> (~50 Mb Full Duplex) >> - 4' (34 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 197.61 Mb >> (~100 Mb Full Duplex) >> >> 11 GHz Licensed Radio (no noise to worry about) >> - 2' (34.3 dBi) Dishes on both sides - Aggregate Throughput - 220 Mb (110 >> Mb Full Duplex) >> >> *NOTE: Licensed radios transmit and receive on SEPARATE frequencies...so >> round trip latency is ~0.4 milliseconds (~400 microseconds) per hop >> >> >> Now, let's look at cost >> PTP600 with 2' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $14k >> PTP600 with 4' Dual Pol antennas and misc stuff: $16k >> Licensed Radio with 2' Dishes (Software Upgradable to 300 Mb Full Duplex) >> and FCC License: $12k >> >> >> >> -Jeff >> CTI >> "There is a Difference" >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:20 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >> >> >> IMHO the PTP600 is the best UL radio in the market... >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com <mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:08 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >> >> >From what I understand the PTP600 is an OFDM "best effort" radio. If >> >>> the RF >>> >> environment is favorable then it will pass data. If not then it slows >> down and/or starts dropping packets. >> >> I believe the PTP600 is also a HDX radio, is it not? Not trying to be >> adversarial...just interested in learning more about any UL radio that >> can produce 150Mbpd FDX as reliable as a licensed radio set. >> >> Anyone have a PTP600 manual they can send me? >> >> >> Brad >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Gino Villarini >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:59 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >> >> Just the PTP600 that I think off ... 30 mhz >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com <mailto:g...@aeronetpr.com> >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Brad Belton >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 10:54 AM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >> >> Ok, I'll bite. What UL radio set is going to produce 150Mbps FDX and at >> what RF spectrum cost? >> >> >> Brad >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org <mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org> >> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Jeff Ehman >> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:02 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >> >> All, >> >> This post is for those looking at putting in high throughput unlicensed >> radios. I can talk all day about the advantages of licensed (guarantee >> of 35-40db fade margin for starters) but I want to throw out some real >> world numbers I am seeing. Don't get me wrong, there is always a place >> for unlicensed radios (speed to deploy...licensed takes 4-6 weeks to >> build, and you can move the radios without relicensing) but there are >> other options on the high capacity side right now. Check out everything >> below because the pricing for licensed has come down tremendously over >> the years. Just something to mull over this weekend. >> >> THIS IS ALL IN APPLES TO APPLES. >> >> ~110mbps Licensed Radio >> Radio + 2 foot dished + Coordination = $9,995.00 FCC Fees = $650 per >> side = $1,300.00 >> 2 Power Supplies and 2 POE Adaptors = ~$638.00 TOTAL PRICE ALL IN = >> ~$11,933.00 >> >> ~150mbps Unlicensed Radio >> 150mbps Connectorized Radio Link = ~$11,000 Dual Pol Antennas + Coax >> Jumpers = ~$400.00 TOTAL PRICE ALL IN = $11,400.00 >> >> -Jeff >> CTI >> "There is a Difference" >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ---- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! 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