Well yeah, the sad part is the folks that came here were directly involved in the drafting of the dfs2 rules, and the word going back to DC is that new users of 5.4 are a bunch of cowboys using $80 gear not certified. They had a similar problem in NYC
You can imagine what that could do to us as a whole... We could loose 5.4 Gino A. Villarini [email protected] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 2:02 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question Its interesting to hear details of how it went down. I'm not suggesting it wasn't alot of work or difficult. But I was more bringing forward the point that I still don't see how its any different than what a WISP has to go through on a daily basis, for example in my home market of DC. We have a lot of roofs to. Maybe that should be a good story to support WISPA's position on Licensed Lite for Whitespace (Oh yeah, that one is over and lost) or why WISP's need their own usable spectrum not flooded by millions of unlicensed devices? Maybe the radar should have been designed to drop down to use 10Mhz channels during interference situations? (joke) :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gino Villarini" <[email protected]> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question > Thing is that WISP are secondary or Terceary users of 5.4, It took 10 > persons cause our area is very similar to Miami, lots of Bldgs, lots of > RF Emitters in the area... Thay had lots of work to do! > > It was a tough job to do... They visited nearly 25 rooftops among other > locations, during lots of test on each. > > I was one day with them.... > > > Gino A. Villarini > [email protected] > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:15 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question > > Maybe thats why the weather man always get the forcast wrong, those darn > WISPs :-) > > OK, lets get real... I agree, we should not do anything that we know > will purposely harm radar systems. > But the FEDs negotiated teh DFS technical spec for 5-7 years, before > they finally gave it to us. > If they didn't get it right, thats not really my doing. nor the WISP > industry's. When my network gets interfered with, it is my responsibilty > to go find a solution, and go find the culprit. Why should it be any > different for the radar person? I'm tired of teh double standard that > WISPs are less important than the rest of the world, and therefore > should be expected to take steps far greater than others. Many WISPs > provide mission critical solutions, just as critical as radar in my > opinion. For example WISPs may provide broadband to TV stations that > distribute the information to the public, or the remote scientific > communities that interperates the results. > Or to Hospitals and homes of teh elderly, or possible the schools where > our children learn. Etc Etc. Why are WISPs so less deserving to use > spectrum? > Quite honestly I don't believe any spectrum should be allowed to be > licensed. > > A WISPs responsibilty is to comply to the rules, not to monitor whether > radar systems get interference. Thats the responsibilty of the Radar > techs. > If the FAA comes knocking at my door saying I'm interfering with them, > I'd be the first person to Immediately stop interfering with them, and > offer full cooperation. (whether legally required or not). They were > there first, and the goal is not to interfere with them. But the burden > is on them to show me the interference exists. And if it takes them 10 > people to track down the interference, all I can say is, I wish I had > their budget to waste on tech labor, because they could have > accomplished the task with 1 or 2 people (quickly), like WISPs usually > do. > > But what you are right about is FCC compliance. In a situation like > that, its going to get ugly if uncertified gear was used. > The FCC was really big on 5.4G legallity of DFS2. > > I think the FCC would be less harsh on 5.3G, as many 5.3 systems had > been grandfathered, and it would have to be proven whether the WISPs had > a grandfathered link, on whether the WISP was acting responsibly. And > 5.3 radar users are likely already toleraent of the fact that 5.3 WISP > users are out there, with DFS not being an original requirement of 5.3. > But with 5.4Ghz, its a totally different animal, there was no legal 5.4 > system not supporting DFS. > I would find it highly unwise to use a non-certified 5.4Ghz system. > > I wonder if ANY of the MESH hardware is certified for DFS2 successfully. > > Such as Tropo? Or if they are all still 5.8 and 2.4 systems? > > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gino Villarini" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>; "WISPA General List" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 11:41 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question > > >> WE saw this recently here, >> >> The FCC and FAA sent a crew of about 10 perrsons to hunt down some > rogue >> emissions that were afecting the local FAA Weather Radar. They were >> here for about 2 weeks. >> >> The local radar operated in 5610, had a rx opening from 5580 to 5640. >> The gain of the Weather antenna was 70db and the rx thershold -110, so >> imagine how a stray radio would interfere! >> >> They had a field day with local wispa using non FCC DFS Aproved gear > in >> the band! >> >> They even got some stats on Canopy gear not trigerring correctly to > the >> radar signature! >> >> They were going to Motorola with the info gathered here >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> [email protected] >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On >> Behalf Of Scott Carullo >> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:52 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question >> >> You don't think your active transmitter can affect their weather > radar? >> >> NOT >> >> Just because they have their gain tuned such that they can't hear a >> reflection off a baseball in your area doesn't mean your signal won't >> come booming in for them :) >> >> Mostly weather radar... And - remember - its just not the news >> stations >> in your area with radars // military installations, government >> establishments, airports, NOAA etc... the list goes on. >> >> Scott Carullo >> Brevard Wireless >> 321-205-1100 x102 >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >>> From: "Kurt Fankhauser" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:46 AM >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question >>> >>> Is it military radar or weather radar that operates in these bands? > If >> >>> it >> is >>> weather then we are lucky around here, our county is smack dab in the >> middle >>> of the "out of range zone" for 3 different weather radars by about > 60+ >> miles >>> each. The National Weather Service is really interested in storm >>> spotters >> in >>> this area because of the lack of radar coverage. >>> >>> Kurt Fankhauser >>> WAVELINC >>> P.O. Box 126 >>> Bucyrus, OH 44820 >>> 419-562-6405 >>> www.wavelinc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:13 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question >>> >>> The only good answer to combat DFS is to use directional PTP antennas >> with >>> good F/B ratios. >>> >>> I'd give 5.4G back to the FCC in a heartbeat, if they gave us 5.3Ghz >>> back >> >>> without DFS and low power requirements. >>> >>> If you ask me.... Either 5.3 radars or 5.4 radars should be forced to >>> upgrade to the other band, and free up the other :-) >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Adam Goodman" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]>; "WISPA General List" >> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:51 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DFS Radar Question >>> >>> >>> I had some trouble with radar (think it was radar) last year. >>> Interferences could be from many sources. It sa problem because you >>> can't just go sit there for a couple of weeks with a spectrum > analyzer >> >>> listening for noise. It would be nice if there was a reasonably > priced >> >>> logger. Or with Internet connectivity. All this is probably a pipe >>> dream as I have never seen anything with such functionality. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Scott Carullo >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Anyone know of a radio that can just listen passively and scan >>> > through channels and report back on radar signals heard on what >> frequencies? >> That >>> > would be a great tool to have to scope out certain areas of > interest >> to >>> > know ahead of time what radar DFS issues might be present... >>> > >>> > Scott Carullo >>> > Brevard Wireless >>> > 321-205-1100 x102 >>> > >>> > -------- Original Message -------- >>> >> From: "Blair Davis" <[email protected]> >>> >> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 4:30 PM >>> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Gell Cell? >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ---- >> >>> > ---- >>> >> WISPA Wants You! 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