At the end of the day, the agencies giving out the money have to give  
out a lot of money in a very short period of time. To achieve this  
they plan on dividing up the allocations across a variety of other  
entities for help as well as allocating large sums to individual  
companies. This means applications for small amounts of money just  
aren't going to be considered. Of course the flip side is that  
organizations submitting applications for larger amounts than they can  
actual handle are going to be denied as well. In other words, this  
whole process is self-selecting for large companies with resources.

Now then... what do you need to be able to show to have any chance?  
Your application needs to be for a large amount of money say at least  
$25MM. Your company needs to have previously been awarded a grant for  
a broadband project. You need to have matching funds lined up ahead of  
time that cover not only the requirements of the grant, but also your  
overhead costs associated with ramping up to do the project. This is  
because you need to hire people to implement the project or it won't  
be "shovel ready".

Once you have the above then you will be just another application  
worthy of consideration. If you want to get to the top of the pile  
then you are going to need recommendations from your PUC/PSC, and/or  
congressman, and/or governor.

Also, should you be submitting applications to RUS that plan on  
utilizing 3650, remember that Adelstein was a major proponent of  
3650's hybrid licensing model. Do you have a large 3650 deployment? Is  
it compliant with the rules?

-Matt

On May 25, 2009, at 9:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote:

> Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR  
> (including DR
> and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying  
> to
> figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend  
> it with
> us right!).
>
> Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more  
> conversations
> than I think I cared to):
>
> - No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get  
> it.
> Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others  
> that
> Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people  
> that have
> received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc.  No one has a  
> clear idea
> of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do  
> to help
> you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is  
> like.
>
> - Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a  
> forum
> for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and  
> WISPA can
> help lobby the government to get the money into our hands.  I wouldn't
> expect WISPA to provide a "grant in a box" widget :-)
>
> - Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed
> paperwork, you're not going to get any money.  It's amazing how many  
> people
> have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the  
> rules on
> who is going to get it has been defined!
>
> - There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a  
> million
> dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are  
> going to
> crash and burn Metricom style.  So while an incumbent might be the  
> better
> choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together  
> are
> pretty impressive.  But I digress... because...
>
> - Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets  
> even 10%
> of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than  
> the
> people that probably will get it.
>
> Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade  
> organization to
> give you the secret sauce on how to get that money.  Sure we are all  
> doing
> research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they  
> will be
> right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are  
> going
> to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at).  So I would start
> looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as  
> much
> information as you can.  In the long run, if you want the money,  
> YOUR going
> to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-)
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Charles Wu
>> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM
>> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
>>
>> Hi Scott,
>>
>>> What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband
>> stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my
>> membership fees(after >tax season) are sitting here... give me  
>> something
>> to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA),  
>> but
>> didn't get much out of it.
>>
>>> I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on
>> this. Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I  
>> jump
>> on that >opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust.
>>
>>> From someone who's successfully navigated this process in various
>> iterations, the process of putting in an application for government
>> funding (be it RUS/NTIA/etc) is something that's measured in inches  
>> of
>> thickness of paper and months (or years) of labor -- at the last  
>> ISPCON,
>> Donny Bell, a WISP out of Minnesota mentioned that he spent in  
>> excess of
>> $250k in time / effort / manpower / legal fees for his first RUS loan
>> application -- and was denied!
>>
>> Keep in mind too, if you take a look at the comments on the stimulus
>> funding, there were thousands of comments (and many from people with
>> deep pockets and plenty of lawyers and DC lobbying) -- the  
>> competition
>> for this money will be, IMO, incredibly stiff and will require a  
>> full-
>> time expensive, sustained effort if you even want to have a chance to
>> win
>>
>> I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect $250 / year in dues to  
>> provide
>> you a turn-key solution for grant funding
>>
>> That said, for your information -- here's a link to the latest in  
>> BTOP
>> updates: http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/program-
>> plan&program_id=5517#schedule
>>
>> -Charles
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>> From: RickG <rgunder...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org>
>> Date:  Sun, 24 May 2009 13:00:41 -0400
>>
>>> I find the "secret sauce" of converting a customer a very  
>>> interesting
>>> subject as well. For the most part nearly every WISP I have run  
>>> had a
>>> monopoly. The ones that didnt had a niche of some kind. My first
>>> owner/operator venture was not good because it was in a highly
>>> competitive market and I could not overcome the "go with the big
>>> company" mentality. My customers said I gave great service but even
>>> they succumbed to price. Therefore, I sold that and went back to the
>>> monopoly world (read boondocks). Even here, I eventually expect
>>> competition to enter my market. It would be nice to know the "secret
>>> sauce" so I can be better prepared for that day.
>>>
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:33 AM, Charles Wu <c...@cticonnect.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>>> All I can say is if you are "holding back" on doing more installs
>> because you can't afford it, you need to find some financing and get
>> installing. Once that customer is installed with something else (DSL,
>>> Cable, competitor), it's 10x harder to get them to switch to you.  
>>> You
>> have to get the customers NOW.
>>>>
>>>> Now that's a more interesting discussion
>>>>
>>>> What's the business plan for customer acquisition?  Do you still  
>>>> keep
>> building out into unserved areas (e.g., "first to market")?
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I would guess that most areas have competition - so
>> then is the business model based upon arbitraging attrition and  
>> moves?
>>>>
>>>> e.g., the average American moves every 7 years - so that means  
>>>> 12% of
>> the population is available "yearly" as a "new customer"
>>>>
>>>> So, say you have 5,000 customers in a market of 100,000
>>>>
>>>> You'll churn 1%  / month (50) - but there's a market of "new  
>>>> adds" of
>> 1,000 customers every month due to just organic moving activity...so
>> assuming 20% market share, market equilibrium would be 20,000
>> subscribers
>>>>
>>>> Not necessarily a bad thing =)
>>>>
>>>> That said, I'd be curious to talk about "secret sauce" methods to
>> convert customers from the competition
>>>>
>>>> -Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles Wu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regarding debt...I've found that there's a "scale inflection point"
>> in running a WISP (or any business for the matter) that needs to be
>> reached -- the main purpose for taking on debt (because due to  
>> interest,
>> you end up paying more in the longer term instead of buying cash),  
>> is to
>> accelerate growth so one can progress beyond this point
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> e.g., if you can organically fund 30 new installs a month with  
>>>> cash,
>> if you take on debt, you could leverage yourself and now do 100  
>> installs
>> / month
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now, from a business perspective -- in looking at the WISP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a stand-alone sustainable business -- it costs a minimum of  
>>>> about
>> $30k / month to operate a small WISP -- now, I'll argue that that
>> $30k/month in operations remains relatively constant and whether it's
>> supporting 300, 800 or 1500 customers -- however, at 300 customers,  
>> the
>> business is bleeding cash...at 800 customers the business is just  
>> about
>> at a break-even, and at 1500 customers, the business is a cash  
>> machine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org<mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org>
>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Reed
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:20 PM
>>>>
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
>> Availability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So I will take option 4 from a previous post since Travis made the
>> point.
>>>>
>>>> "Up to 60 months with $1 buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan."
>>>>
>>>> I want to run debt free as soon a possible.  That being the case I
>> don't
>>>>
>>>> lease and have not leased to keep debt down.  I do have a start-up
>> loan
>>>>
>>>> that is being paid on a little slower than I would like, but we  
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> paid off 1/2 of it in < 5 years and based on our payments, we are
>> cash
>>>>
>>>> flow positive.
>>>>
>>>> Granted, my WISP is a lot smaller than many that post here and our
>>>>
>>>> growth rate is small, but some of that is managing growth to stay
>>>>
>>>> cash-flow positive.
>>>>
>>>> I have seen several companies die because they became cash rich,  
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>> still could not cover the debt.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The banks can sell a car with little effort. They already have
>>>>
>>>> relationships with dealers and auctions. And often, if the  
>>>> consumer's
>>>>
>>>> credit is questionable, the dealer will guarantee to take the car
>> back
>>>>
>>>> if the loan defaults.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Who is going to buy a $10,000 radio that has been repo'd? Even for
>>>>
>>>> $5k, I wouldn't touch it. I'd buy a new radio with warranty, that I
>>>>
>>>> know is good and hasn't been fried or broken.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The banks will never loan on the equipment alone. There is no
>> security
>>>>
>>>> there... but again, why do you need a bank loan for equipment when
>> you
>>>>
>>>> can just lease it and get the same results? Up to 60 months with $1
>>>>
>>>> buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan. What's the difference?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>> Microserv
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe when talking about CPE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But what about when one is talking about a $10,000 Part101 radio?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just like a car, all that the lender should need is to "hold the
>> title" of
>>>>
>>>> the radio until paid off, and get a down payment of $2000 to cover
>> the cost
>>>>
>>>> of tower climber/repo man, and a signed letter of authorization  
>>>> from
>> lanlord
>>>>
>>>> stating the location of the tower gear is installed on and they
>> acknowledge
>>>>
>>>> that the gear is not abandoned equipment. (So it does not
>> automatically
>>>>
>>>> become property of landlord in 4 months, and teh landlord knows the
>>>>
>>>> equipment owner has first rights to the gear).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Think about it... Wouldn't repo costs be reduced when the repo man
>> knows
>>>>
>>>> exactly where to find the radio? A car can easilly be relocated and
>>>>
>>>> hard-to-find, when the owner skips town.
>>>>
>>>> Plus the home likely has an owner with a shot gun or a big dog,  
>>>> which
>> the
>>>>
>>>> tower/MTU likely does not.  The MTU building might even have a
>> security
>>>>
>>>> guard to escort teh lender safely to the roof :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>
>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>
>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: "jp" <j...@saucer.midcoast.com><mailto:j...@saucer.midcoast.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 11:13 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
>> Availability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a worse case scenario, a car is probably considerably easier to
>> repo
>>>>
>>>> than the antenna on my roof and radio in my attic. And the car  
>>>> would
>> be
>>>>
>>>> worth a magnitude more money. The installed infrastructure is
>> worthless
>>>>
>>>> if it costs a huge amount to get to it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 07:27:09PM -0400, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've never found a lender willing to lend against using the in- 
>>>> place
>> used
>>>>
>>>> equipment as colladeral.
>>>>
>>>> It is the biggest double standard.
>>>>
>>>> I find it highly ironic that they'll use a car for colladeral that
>> looses
>>>>
>>>> 50% of its value the day it leaves the lot, and has a rate of  
>>>> failure
>> and
>>>>
>>>> risk of damage higher than just about any product on the market,  
>>>> and
>> it
>>>>
>>>> has
>>>>
>>>> a huge cash burn (gas :-). but yet lendors won't put equivellent
>> value on
>>>>
>>>> wireless gear, that holds its value, Ebay boasting easilly 50%  
>>>> after
>> 3-4
>>>>
>>>> years of use, even after fully depreciated.
>>>>
>>>> I'll never understand the lending market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>>
>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>>
>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: <rea...@muddyfrogwater.us><mailto:rea...@muddyfrogwater.us>
>>>>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:55 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
>>>>
>>>> Availability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Answers in-line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>> <insert witty tagline here>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: "Charles Wu" <c...@cticonnect.com><mailto:c...@cticonnect.com>
>>>>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List"
>> <wireless@wispa.org><mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 8:49 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital
>> Availability
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With all the hype being generated by the stimulus bill, we have  
>>>> been
>>>>
>>>> approached by a multitude of third party financial organizations  
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>> a renewed interest in potentially financing rural broadband...now,
>>>>
>>>> specifically, for WISPs, in the past, equipment leasing has been a
>>>>
>>>> very
>>>>
>>>> popular option for financing, but in looking at our numbers over  
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> past
>>>>
>>>> year, I've noticed a marked decline in the amount of leasing that  
>>>> we
>>>>
>>>> do -
>>>>
>>>> that said, I have the following questions for the listserv about
>>>>
>>>> financing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Assuming that WISPs are still need to buy equipment...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Are you able to just purchase equipment out of cash-flow
>>>>
>>>> organically
>>>>
>>>> generated from operations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Other than originally starting with our own personal seed money,
>> that's
>>>>
>>>> what
>>>>
>>>> we've done.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2. Have you gone to more traditional forms of money (e.g., bank /  
>>>> SBA
>>>>
>>>> /
>>>>
>>>> RUS loans)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I could not qualify for any of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 3. Are you doing more vendor leasing programs (e.g., Motorola 3%
>>>>
>>>> financing
>>>>
>>>> deal)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Never sought any.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 4. Have you not been able to borrow money due to the credit crunch
>>>>
>>>> (e.g.,
>>>>
>>>> not deploying as aggressively)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My corporation hasn't ever been able to obtain hard money credit.
>> In
>>>>
>>>> fact, the "credit crunch" start last Fall raised my "30+ day past
>> due"
>>>>
>>>> amount from a piddly $1200 to at one time to almost $13,000 in just
>>>>
>>>> four
>>>>
>>>> months.   That almost put us under, and we're still barely scraping
>> by
>>>>
>>>> until
>>>>
>>>> our seasonally variable cash flow revives come August, with still
>>>>
>>>> several
>>>>
>>>> thousand on the books that's very slowly getting chipped away at.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5. Are you holding off on deployments because of the economy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, we're holding off due to lack of cash flow.   We have plenty of
>>>>
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>> waiting for us to build infrastructure out to them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 6. Have you gone to Agility...<cough> Louie the loanshark =)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After much discussion, being some of the first people Agility
>>>>
>>>> contacted,
>>>>
>>>> we
>>>>
>>>> have not done any business with them.   In my estimation, they  
>>>> wanted
>>>>
>>>> control over our business and day to day decisions, which we
>> concluded
>>>>
>>>> was
>>>>
>>>> both unwarranted and unwise.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or any other thoughts / comments on this topic?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WISP equipment is not really a "commodity" in that there is  
>>>> almost no
>>>>
>>>> market
>>>>
>>>> for it outside of the "maker-vendor" relationship.  Other than  
>>>> Ebay,
>>>>
>>>> and a
>>>>
>>>> couple of people who attempt to do it piecemeal, there is no  
>>>> "market"
>>>>
>>>> which
>>>>
>>>> stabilizes the value of used equipment, making them a commodity you
>> can
>>>>
>>>> borrow against.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps it would be more useful, if vendors had the ability to get
>>>>
>>>> capital
>>>>
>>>> and create stable working and short term credit relationships with
>>>>
>>>> their
>>>>
>>>> buyers, kind of like the used car market.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org<mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> /*
>>>>
>>>> Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and  
>>>> DSL
>>>>
>>>>  KB1IOJ        |   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting
>>>>
>>>> http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Maine    http://www.midcoast.com/
>>>>
>>>> */
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>> ---
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----------
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>> $30.00/mth.
>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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