Brad, Both you and Tom have some good points but I must comment that one of my favorite things about Tom is his detailed responses. Most people, including myself leave a lot out of our replies and therefore a lot of added value is not pass on. Thanks Tom!
-RickG On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Brad Belton <[email protected]> wrote: > <yawn>...sorry almost fell asleep about a third of the way into your > response. Funny, that seems to happen a lot with your posts...<yawn> > > > On one hand you try to say you want to work with property owners and then on > the other you resent them for taking 50% of your revenue to date! Wow, if > you're giving 50% of your revenue to them and they're not taking you to > Ruth's Chris every third Friday then you have to admit your doing something > very wrong! lol > > (1) Yes, and my point was if you got a "NO" even 100 times in ten years > you're doing something very wrong. > > (2) If the property owner doesn't get it, then move on. The market will > drive penetration. Well, that is if you offer a desired product. > > (3) If it took you ten years to figure out how to work with property owners > then all I can say is better late than never, right? <sigh> > > (4) It can be a fast process given the right approach. Again, my point > here. > > (5) Ok, the truth comes out regarding your feelings towards the evil > property owner. Gee all they did was squat and pop out a multi-million > dollar property just so you have a place to hang your antenna. > > (6) Cry me a river. Most any business has its challenges. DC is no > different than hundreds if not thousands of metro areas with stiff > competition. So, your solution to your lack of ability to compete is to ask > Big Government to step in and make it all right for you. <sigh> > > (7) Ok, progress...and without Big Government either! Congratulations. > > > So, you seem to think the ILECs get 100% coverage (which is far from true) > for free? > > > Brad > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi > Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 10:44 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right > > Brad, > > First, I was being Facetious , I thought that would have been obvious. > > Second, Forgive the "generalized steriotypic" comment, as I did not mean to > bundle all property managers/ owner into the same class. Many property > Owners do "get it", and we embrace their allegience and we work with them > effectively. When I say negative things about PRoperty owners/managers, I am > > only referring to the percentage of clueless property mamangers that just > dont get it, and that have shown to be both destructuve to themselves, their > > tenants, and our company's progress, because they cant open their mind to > new ways of thinking. > > Third, I have been in this business for 10 years now, and it took a while, > but I've gotten to the point, that I pretty much have it down to a system > how to work with the local property managers /owners as effectively as > possible. BUT it was a long hard road to get here. It wasn't so easy the > first few years. Admittedly, that actually works to my advantage now because > > we have LOTS of good relationships with PRoperty owners, that will be very > difficult for new entrants to try and replicate equally. > > Fourth, My strategy has always been to look from the eyes of the property > owner, understand their position, and find ways to allie property owners and > > manager, not fight them. In otherwords, how to make them your friend. There > are many ways to acommplish the goal, but again, it was NOT a fast process > to change the mind set of property owners in teh early years. It took > persistance, and a 5 year history of proof to lay in front of them, to > compare how property managers benefited or lost dependant on whether they > had embraced our wireless broadband partnerships or not. > > Fifth, My frustration had always stemmed from the fact that 50% of our > revenue to date went to Property owner, and they generally dont do jack > squat other than delay the time it takes me to install subscribers. They do > control valuable roof assets, which is why they sometimes get paid by me. > It makes me laugh, when I hear consumers screaming for 30-50mbps for $25 > /month broadband service, when I am often forced to pay Property > owners/managers way more than that. I dont really have a propblem with what > > Proiperty owners charge, as long as its a fair competitive market, and I can > > charge my end users adequate fees to recoupe my costs that I pay property > managers. BUT in talking National Broadband Plan, where there is a goal to > lower customer's costs and raise their speed, One of the most effective > things the FCC/Feds can do is lower the cost ISP's ahve to gain access to > tower assets. > > Sixth- It is important to understand that all markets are nto the same, DC > Metro is a very ruthless market when it comes to gaining roof access. In > rural America the problem may be special access costs (RBOC?), but in Metro > areas, we tade that problem for property owners that all want their peice of > > the action. I hear stories of many WISPs that barter most of their tower > colocation, with very little cost for that. Or I hear stories where people > can erect their own towers for a few thousant dollars. Or bought the land to > > build their tower for a few thousand. These things just aren;t that common > here in DC. We live in a world of $17,000 Special exception permit > applications. We live in the world of maximum broadband provider > competitions, where roof managers try to give roof rights go to the highest > bidder, and never really want to give it, because of the possibilty for a > future hiugher bidder. And everyone wants Comast and Fios in the building, > because the Public is most aware of these companies. Often these companies > will refuse to come, if a third party ISP has been given rights to the > building with signfiicant market share, abd Property owners are hesitent to > select a small provider in fear they will retrict what the consumer may want > > more. But there are hundreds of scenarios, and they give the property owner > the upper hand in negotiation. It takes a lot of creativity to get around > the barriers.. > > Seventh, In the early year 1 out of 9 closed sales were prevented due to > property management easement issues. Today, 9 out of 10 close sales, > actually get installed, because we've learned how to better work with > property owners, and target the locatiosn where we are successful. But its > still a problem. And until a Wireless provider will have the same rights for > > rooftops, that an ILEC utility has for the ground, we will never be able to > compete on equal ground, at the price points that The FEds and Public are > asking and dreaming for. > > This is a big problem for us in public policy. ILECs can get 100% coverage, > third party ISPs and WISPs dont have the legal rights to gain access to the > resources to reach 100% of consumer. And the county and states dont have the > > power to give access to it either because they dont own most of the land > that right-of-ways or Easements are needed. > > But its why I have a big problem with Grant programs that force applicants > to be evaluated on both abilty to serve largest population and deliver at > lowest costs. I dont want to give access to prime tower assets at a > discount, no more than the property owners I pay wont discount it. I need > to be selective on how these valuable resources are used.. > > Tom DeReggi > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Belton" <[email protected]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right > > >> "If I had a $1 for every propoerty owner that would not allow me to deploy >> broadband to an inquiring prospect, I'd be a millionaire." >> >> Wow Tom, if even remotely true this should be a glaring indicator of >> something very wrong with your approach. >> >> I understand that a "pinch of story additive" may help make your point >> when >> frustrated, but dilute your claim down from 1,000,000 to 10,000, 1,000 or >> even 100 and I still don't think we've been turned away 100 times in the >> ten >> years we've been deploying fixed wireless. >> >> Maybe comments you've made like "I'll legally force you to allow me, or >> buy >> me an alternative" are rubbing the property owner's the wrong way? >> >> I dunno....just a stab in the dark... >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:47 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right >> >> Actually, from that perspective "LEGAL" right could be a good thing, and >> better if expanded.... >> >> I want to put an antenna on the roof, and its the only way to get >> broadband >> there, and the property manager says "no". >> I now say "YOU need to let me because its my legal right to have it". I'll >> legally force you to allow me, or buy me an alternative. >> >> What it really needs to read is "Americans have the LEGAL RIGHT to >> Broadband >> >> of CHOICE". Now that would be a good thing for competition.. >> Or "Americans have Legal Right to BRoadband of Choice, without excessive >> fees charged by third parties at a rate higher than they'd charge other >> broadband providers for delivering broadband." >> >> Could you imaging if Wireless PRoviders could pull Roof easements with the >> same power as ILECs pull ground easements? >> >> If I had a $1 for every propoerty owner that would not allow me to deploy >> broadband to an inquiring prospect, I'd be a millionaire. >> Or atleast my sales reps wouldn't always get discouraged and quit. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert West" <[email protected]> >> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 5:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right >> >> >>> Yeah. A legal right. In that case, I ground my son from that damn Maple >>> Story he plays hours on end and he calls children's services because I >>> violated his legal rights....... >>> >>> What other things do I have the "legal right" to that I don't have, I >>> wonder....... >>> >>> This is that Entitlement crap again. I'm entitled to fresh water, >>> nutritious and healthy food, safe place to live, 100mb download speed >>> internet, blah, blah, blah. Bunch of babies. >>> >>> Bob- >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch >>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 5:12 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right >>> >>> >>> On Oct 16, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Robert West wrote: >>> >>>> I can see somewhere in the near future, after all major technologies >>>> converge into devices that run on whatever version of the "internet" >>>> we will >>>> have at that time, that this would be a feasible argument however at >>>> this >>>> moment and probably in the next 10 years the vast majority of us >>>> will be >>>> able to live and survive perfectly fine with no internet. >>>> >>>> I don't understand the 1mg limit for the human right. >>> >>> Keep in mind, it's a *legal* right (soon) in Finland, not a human >>> right. People are conflating the French decree with Finland's. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>>> Most information, >>>> other than video, can be had at mere dial up speed. How would slower >>>> internet speeds be the difference between life or death? >>>> >>>> My 15 year old..... >>>> >>>> "Dad! If I can't see the Whack-a-kitty video on YouTube I'm just >>>> gonna >>>> die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" >>>> >>>> Okay, that much I DO understand. >>>> >>>> Bob- >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of David Hulsebus >>>> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:44 PM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: [WISPA] Broadband Internet Access Deemed a Legal Right >>>> >>>> FYI >>>> >>>> From SANS Newsbites Vol. 11 Num. 82 : Broadband Internet Access Deemed >>>> a Legal Right >>>> >>>> --Finland Declares 1Mb Broadband Access a Legal Right >>>> (October 14 & 15, 2009) >>>> The Finnish government has enacted a law making 1Mb broadband Internet >>>> access a legal right. The law will take effect in July 2010. The >>>> country may eventually guarantee its citizens the right to 100Mb >>>> broadband connections. Finland's Transport and Communications >>>> Ministry >>>> spokesperson Laura Vikkonen was quoted as saying that "We think [the >>>> Internet is] something you cannot live without in modern society. >>>> Like >>>> banking services or water or electricity, you need an Internet >>>> connection." Earlier this year, France declared Internet access to be >>>> a human right. >>>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10374831-2.html >>>> >>> >> > http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/10/15/finland-m >>>> akes-broadband-internet-a-legal-right.aspx >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave Hulsebus >>>> Portative Technologies, LLC >>>> www.portative.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> -------------- >>> Chuck Bartosch >>> Clarity Connect, Inc. >>> 200 Pleasant Grove Road >>> Ithaca, NY 14850 >>> (607) 257-8268 >>> >>> "When the stars threw down their spears, >>> and water'd heaven with their tears, >>> Did He smile, His work to see? >>> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?" >>> >>> From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> WISPA Wants You! 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