This is one of those times that I would have to call this a non standard install and charge the client for the effort of getting him service.
I agree with others a 1/2 way repeater may be a help to other clients. Next you have to remember that if not this then probably next year Corn will be back on the hill. What happens when you add 12 more feet to that hill for 4 months. Is it worth the frustrated customer. I have a statement that I have instilled in my installers. "I would rather have an unhappy customer for a week when I could not give them service than to have a unhappy customer for 1/2 a year when their service is bad and they gripe about it to all their neighbors". I have 5 customers that I will never make a dime off of due to them being so motivated and pushy that I worked my butt off getting them service. Then more noise happened and I changed radios, Neighbor built a barn causing reflection so I moved the radio, lightening hit, another radio. After 10 trips out there, they are (currently) working, the dogs don't even bark when I pull in anymore. So $650 worth of radios + $800 worth labor > $199 install + $45 X 24months= $1080 means I loose. Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:20 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic We just tore ours down, but our corn crib was 30 - 40 feet tall. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:11 AM To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic > That profile suggests at 31 feet the customer should see the light > (the black LOS line). Was that where they looked for the light, or > lower? I would have to guess the corn crib was not nearly 31 feet. > > I think the whole US has 3m and 10m data - > http://www.cplus.org/rmw/dataen.html > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to > continue that counts." > --- Winston Churchill > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Mike <[email protected]> wrote: >> I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a >> clear >> night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT >> see >> the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, >> once >> you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and "see" the hill. >> This >> part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but >> I >> CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Josh Luthman >> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic >> >> To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad >> meter resolution? >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to >> continue that counts." >> --- Winston Churchill >> >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge >>> diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His >>> options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. >>> >>> >>> >>> A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in >>> large, these rural areas are very quiet. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a >>> ways. >>> However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an >>> image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to >>> the >>> back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a >>> laptop. >>> Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in >>> a >>> short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we >>> would >>> install. >>> >>> >>> >>> Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would >>> dictate >> it >>> won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a >> handful >>> of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. >> On >>> all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except >>> when >>> tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I >>> have >>> told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those >>> events. >>> Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple >>> of >>> them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting >>> should >>> only affect this area 20 some hours a year. >>> >>> >>> >>> The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing >> on >>> it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were >>> ready >>> for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and >> had >>> absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they >> are >>> no longer "row" polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. >> Once >>> the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. >>> >>> >>> >>> On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, >>> instead >> it >>> is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because >>> the >>> obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it >>> is >>> now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions >>> closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this >>> install? >>> >>> >>> >>> I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. >>> Like >> I >>> said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, >>> but >>> we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't >> working, >>> we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. >>> >>> >>> >>> Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Friendly Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike Gilchrist >>> >>> Disruptive Technologist >>> >>> Advanced Wireless Express >>> >>> P.O. Box 255 >>> >>> Toledo, IA 52342 >>> >>> Mike's >>> >> <http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h >>> tml> Weekly Column >>> >>> 239.770.6203 >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >>> WISPA Wants You! 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