That may well be the case, but that doesn't mean anything I said was wrong. Whitespaces still won't go through the mountains.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Jenkins" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 2:52 PM To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC > You might have a lot of pigs, but I am guessing you haven't dealt with > forest. I have areas where it takes a 200ft tower to mostly beat the > foliage. And there are 150ft pine trees every 10-15ft everywhere. > Customers have anywhere from 20 to 100 acre properties. Most customers > cannot see their neighbors house. Also you can travel 1 mile in some > areas and the elevation can change over 1000ft. The next major ridgeline > or mountain is about every 4 miles. > > 900mhz with clean spectrum does not work in most of these areas at less > than 1 mile. Whitespace will make it so a lot of houses in the rural > areas around here (Northern California) can get Internet faster than > 28.8bps dialup. > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> On the contrary, with proper equipment availability, the band will be >> quite >> a benefit, but I suggest that we not underestimate the negatives and >> overestimate the positives. >> >> I would call myself rural, but not desolate. ;-) There's 2400 pigs on >> this >> property, no less than 100k pigs within a 1.5 mile radius, approximately >> 1M >> pigs in the county. >> >> Providing adequate current\next generation speeds to a 100 home >> subdivision >> or town is just as much of a pain due to foliage for me as it is for >> anyone >> else. I'd much rather point a TV sector from an existing tower or two >> than >> construct an 80' tower to overcome foliage before I can use equipment in >> legacy bands. This method reduce the points of failure and permits more >> sophisticated support systems (power backup, backhaul, security, etc.) >> than >> building little towers everywhere I want to serve a few houses. >> >> It also allows me to reach into new markets before I can justify the cost >> of >> setting up a full tower using legacy bands. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Ryan Spott" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:26 PM >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> I would suggest that you not use this band if it does not meet your >>> needs. >>> I >>> tend to not use 5.8 in my area as 5.8 does not meet my needs. >>> >>> Your needs appear to be different from mine. >>> >>> ryan >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Mike Hammett >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> So we're regressing to a bunch of high powered omnis? Maybe I don't >>>> understand how much of a God-send sync is, but if it's that great, why >>>> is >>>> the default Canopy setup 6x 60* sectors instead of a single omni? (I'm >>>> not >>>> saying sync is bad, I wish everything had sync). >>>> >>>> I don't really give a hoot about the higher power. Regular power >>>> levels >>>> will give me the penetration I need. I'll run out of mbit/s long >>>> before >>>> I >>>> run out of dB. I am aware that more rural areas need the higher power. >>>> As >>>> many people are looking to penetrate the foliage domain of a populated >>>> town >>>> or subdivision as there are looking to traverse a sparse forest. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> Mike Hammett >>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Ryan Spott" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:02 PM >>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC >>>> >>>>> At 20watts, you probably won't need a 15db antenna. :) >>>>> >>>>> With lightly licensed, you probably won't need a sector. (less >>>>> interference). >>>>> >>>>> With GPS timing (ala moto/cell gear) you will have less >>>> self-interference. >>>>> ryan >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Mike Hammett >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My experience is mostly limited to the WISP market (though I'm not >>>>>> completely ignorant of other markets). Innovation is always welcome, >>>> but >>>>>> any sector that delivers approximately 90 degrees and 15 dBi >>>>>> performance >>>>>> is >>>>>> going to be huge. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "Mike" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:39 PM >>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC >>>>>> >>>>>>> Have you ever taken a really good look at an FM broadcast antenna? >>>>>>> Most >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> circularly polarized so they can be received by both horizontal and >>>>>>> vertical >>>>>>> receive antennas. Even at 90 MHz they aren't that large either. My >>>>>>> choice >>>>>>> of sector would be something like that, and would be made of >>>>>>> aluminum >>>>>>> parts, >>>>>>> not panels like we are used to using now. I predict circular >>>>>>> polarity >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> be the norm. Why? Because theoretically, a receive antenna of >>>>>>> opposite >>>>>>> circular sense exhibits infinite loss. My experiments have shown >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> reality is less, but you CAN expect at least 30 to 40 dB of >>>>>>> isolation. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> same 6 MHz segment could be reused on the same tower. The phasing >>>>>> harness >>>>>>> on the CPE antenna would have to set to either left hand or right >>>>>>> hand >>>>>>> circular polarization. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Friendly Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike Gilchrist >>>>>>> Disruptive Technologist >>>>>>> Advanced Wireless Express >>>>>>> P.O. Box 255 >>>>>>> Toledo, IA 52342 >>>>>>> 239.770.6203 >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 12:23 PM >>>>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then the problem arises of frequency reuse if we have such low gain >>>>>>> antenna >>>>>>> all over the place... and the size of a sector antenna for towers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> From: "Mike" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 11:59 AM >>>>>>> To: "'WISPA General List'" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA TV Whitespaces Meeting with the FCC >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just for discussion, let's say a TV LPDA has a gain of 8 dBi. It >>>> will >>>>>>>> cover >>>>>>>> the entire VHF TV band, and by superimposing a UHF LPDA on the same >>>>>> mast, >>>>>>>> can cover the entire UHF TV band with similar gain figures. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'd make this challenge: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I could TRY to hide a TV band LPDA on my property and beg you to >>>>>>>> find >>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> Even well hidden, you would. Now, give me a few hours to build a >>>>>>>> narrow >>>>>>>> band antenna with similar gain in ANY 6 MHz segment of the same >>>> bands, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> let me try to hide it. Do you think I could hide it well enough >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> wouldn't find it? I know I can. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> My point is, the antenna which will be needed for any segment of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> whitespace will be much less intrusive than the LPDA (or Yagi) >>>>>>>> being >>>>>> used >>>>>>>> for comparison. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is great dialogue. I hope we are faced with the challenge of >>>>>>>> deploying >>>>>>>> in these bands. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WISPA Wireless List: [email protected] Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
