True, but it works the same.  Thanks for all the great input.

Marco

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Tom,
> Great post with great info. have no quams with the info you have presented.
>
> Just wanted to point it.. that I think you read Marco's email backwards...
>
> What I understood from Marco's post is that HE is currently operating
> the Moto Canopy Tower, and a competitor is getting ready to light up a
> Ubiquity tower approx. 2 miles away from his tower.
>
> :)
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>
>
> On 9/23/2010 7:03 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> Marco,
>>
>> Be aware of one very important principle when deploying Ubiquiti MIMO....
>>
>> With them, you can NOT disable either of the polarities, both polarities
>> always hear noise.
>> In mode 8-15, double the capacity is acheived, each pol with unique data.
>> Even in Modes 0-7 (single chain), I believe the same signal gets transmitted
>> across both pols, and listens on both pols for same signal.
>> The benefit of this is more resilience to multi-path fade, and a theoretical
>> 3db increase in power on the receive.
>> The negative of this is that the noise from BOTH polarities is heard.
>>
>> So... Lets say Horizontal pol is noise free, but verticle pol is full of
>> noise. There is no way to steer around the noise on verticle pol.
>> There is no way to select using Horizontal pol only without the noise of the
>> verticle antenna heard.
>>
>> SO.... How does this apply to Co-existence with Canopy bearby? Well, most
>> Canopy APs use Verticle polarity only.
>> Therefore, the Canopies tower will likely use most of the Verticle polarity
>> channels, and your ubiquitis will likely hear a lot more noise on Verticle
>> channels.
>>
>> If you used equipment that was a single pol design, you'd be able to select
>> Horizontal pol only, and you'd be able to steer around the Canopy easily.
>> With Mimo Ubiquiti, you wont have that option anymore. As well, the Canopy
>> user is locked to 20Mhz channels, and wont be able to make room for you that
>> way either.  So... you should be prepared that you are likely going to be
>> fighting interference with the Canopy users. The Canopy user will have one
>> advantage, they'll only need 3db SNR to survive your noise, where you'll
>> need atleast 8-10db SNR to survive their noise. (Ubiquiti would work better
>> at 18-25db SNR).
>>
>> You will have two advantages though.... One, your Ubiquitis can be set to
>> 10Mhz channels, adjustable in 5Mhz increasments, to find the holes between
>> the Canopy's selected channels. Two, the Ubiquitis are higher power.  You'll
>> be able to go up to 24-26dbm at the CPE (depending on modulation), where
>> Canopy may be limited to 22dbm, and Ubiquiti has more flexible CPE options
>> to choose higher gain antennas, if needed.
>>
>> If the Canopy tower is two miles away, you should be able to carefully
>> select your channel plan to avoid interference, but noise at your tower will
>> still be a big concern to avoid. I'd highly recommend that you go all out on
>> the Ubiquiti Tower, and in addition to using the UBiquiti Antennas, use the
>> custom third party shields made for them to increase the Front/Back
>> isolation of the antennas.
>>
>> These Ubiquiti Radio are really really sweet. And their wireless dirver
>> appear to handle noise well. But its still all about the math, and with
>> Ubiquiti MIMO, it does hear MORE noise, because of the dual pol design.
>>
>> Note, if you ever run into trouble where there the Verticle pol noise is to
>> severe for the AP.... It is possible to select single chain mode 0-7, and
>> cap the verticle pol antenna port on the radio (disconnect verticle pol
>> antenna feed), then your radio would just hear on Horizontal pol. (I believe
>> Chain0 is Horizontal pol, from what we've determined, but you'd need to
>> confirm that yourself). However, I can not vouge for whether there would be
>> any long term harm to the radio because of that, meaning whether it would
>> hurt to operate the radio without an antenna load on the second chain
>> polarity. But we've operated successfully like that at some sights for a
>> while.
>>
>> Another technique that can help is to point only one 120 degree antenna in
>> the direction of the Canopy tower. The mentality here is to send the very
>> least amount of noise and channel usage in their direction. It will be
>> easier for the Canopy tower to vacate and leave a single channel for your
>> use, in that direction. Anything you point at them could interfere with
>> them, and vice versa, so reduce the number of channels pointed to them. Most
>> ISPs can spare a channel, but cant spare many. So give them a solution for
>> non-interference, that impacts them the least.  They were there first, and
>> would likely protect their turf, the last thing you want is a noise battle
>> with a 3db SNR TDD radio.
>>
>> The Ubiquiti freq scanner works well, to find the best free channel to use
>> for each of your sectors. That will come in handy, determining what channels
>> are being used by the Canopy.
>> .
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL&  Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marco Coelho"<[email protected]>
>> To:<[email protected]>; "WISPA General List"<[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 12:57 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] nanostation and canopy towers within 2 miles of each other
>>
>>
>>> I've got a competitor getting ready to light a nanostation based tower
>>> within 2 miles of one of my Canopy 2.4 towers.  What kind of
>>> interference should I expect?
>>>
>>> Listening to this guy, their radios are magic and can shoot through
>>> trees and over hills.  Totally overcoming line of site issues.  Is he
>>> smoking something strange?
>>>
>>> Marco
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Marco C. Coelho
>>> Argon Technologies Inc.
>>> POB 875
>>> Greenville, TX 75403-0875
>>> 903-455-5036
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036


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