Scott, Very well put. I would like to add as well that when we do commit to a certain rate that there is usually an (SLA) "Service Level Agreement" in place to define exactly what we are committing to as well. I would assume that most of us have SLA's with our upstream. I know that I do. The problem you are going to have trying to identify an oversubscription rate is the fact that in todays time of Entertainment Super Freeway" instead of yesterdays "Information Highway" it is very difficult to know exactly how much you can oversubscribe. I really looks like the trend is going towards almost a 1 to 1 ratio which IMO, will never work for far to many reasons to name here. I buy so much bandwidth from my upstream and add users until I start to see the graphs hitting their heads on the limit for more than a half an hour each peak time. I raise my bandwidth at that time. -------Original Message------- From: Scott Reed Date: 6/1/2012 11:40:07 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UC Berkeley study on WISPs I am not sure exactly what you are trying to learn, but you may want to change some questions to really understand. In no way would I equate 10 minutes of a customer down with 10 minutes of an AP down. Likewise, 10 minutes of an AP down does not equate to 10 minutes of an entire tower down. And 10 minutes of any subdivision down is not the same as 10 minutes of my upstream being down. If you are going to collect data, it needs to be able to be transformed into usable data. From Marlon's comment and your response I don't think you can get meaningful information from the data.
You need to understand Marlon's comment. Your statement that "your commit to your customers" is not correct. We commit to our customer up-to a certain amount. No minimum commitment, only a maximum. If we get bandwidth limited on a backhaul and can only deliver 2M to a 4M customer, we are still honoring our commitment. What you are really looking for is the maximum usage we would experience if we could deliver maximum rate to every customer at once. This is not the same as what is committed to. Now, there are some service plan that do have a committed rate (CIR), but that does not seem to be the norm for residential service. This is not just a WISP thing. DSL and cable do it the same way. So, if we are doing best effort, our commitment is 0. If we are doing contracts with CIR specified, then our commitment is the total of the CIRs. All of this is important to get correct in you survey since your original post indicated you are looking to help WISPs manage their networks. To do that, you have know what needs to be managed and how it needs to be managed. In my view both of these items play dramatically into how to manage the network. On 6/1/2012 1:11 PM, Shaddi Hasan wrote: Thanks for the feedback Marlon; I'll try to clarify. By "outage", I mean any downtime anywhere in your network. So if a hypothetical power failure knocked out one customer for ten minutes, that would count as ten minutes of outage in my usage; likewise, if such an outage affected the whole network, it would still be ten minutes of outage. I am admittedly ignoring scale of outage, which I think is where the confusion stems from. Secondly, on oversubscription, what I'm basically looking for is how much capacity have you sold to your customers versus how much you buy from upstream. So if you sell 100 10Mbps plans, your commit to your customers would be 1Gbps, regardless of what the service level objective on that service is (e.g., best effort, etc.) Of course it is impossible to capture all the variety of operational realities that WISPs face in a single survey, hence the follow up interviews which should help capture what the survey missed. Thanks for bringing up these two very good points! I'd be very appreciative if others who felt the survey didn't accurately capture their experience would also get in touch. Shaddi sent from a phone On Jun 1, 2012 9:52 AM, "Marlon K. Schafer (509-982-2181)" <ooe@odessaoffice com> wrote: I took the survey and a couple of things didn't quite fit for us. On the outages. We have a lot of tower sites and 4 different upstream connections. There is always some kind of trouble somewhere on the network. But the whole network has almost never gone down and never for very long. Power outages are rare and usually shorter than our batteries will hold us online for. Every few years a longer one hits us but we usually are able to get generator power in place. You also asked a question about how much internet we've sold to our consumers. I assume you are looking for "over subscription" numbers. I wasn't sure how to answer that. We sell a best effort service. Our customers aren't promised anything in excess of what our incoming capacity is. But often my network will deliver more capacity than we even have coming into a community. So the overall customer capacity is every high above what our incoming capacity is. laters, marlon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shaddi Hasan" <sha...@cs.berkeley.edu> To: <r...@ashtonbrooke.com> Cc: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] UC Berkeley study on WISPs I'd be happy to do so; after I've compiled all the results I'll put together a report to send out to WISPA. Thanks! Shaddi On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Brough Turner <broughtur...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Shaddi, > > As an additional inducement, you might offer to send copies of whatever > paper or report comes out of your research. I know I'd be interested in > reading such a report > > Thanks, > > Brough > > > > Brough Turner > > netBlazr Inc. Free your Broadband! > > Website | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | netBlazr Inc. > > > > > On 5/30/12 12:15 PM, Shaddi Hasan wrote: > > tl;dr: Please take my survey about WISPs! It's quick and anonymous; > you'll help science, and you might win a $100 Amazon gift card! SURVEY > LINK ---> http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/drupal/wisp-study > > Hello! > > My name is Shaddi, and I'm a graduate student at UC Berkeley in the > TIER research group (http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu). > > We're conducting a research study on the network management practices > and challenges faced by WISPs. Our study's goal is to develop an > understanding of the network management practices and challenges of > WISPs in order to guide research towards making WISPs simpler to > manage. > > Our study has two parts. The first is a survey (which should take > about 5-10 minutes). Every question in our survey is optional, and > best estimates are fine. After completing the survey, you may > volunteer to participate in a completely optional follow-up phone > interview, which should take 30-45 minutes. > > After completing the survey, you may provide your email address to be > entered into a drawing for one of three $100 Amazon.com gift cards. > Those who complete a follow-up interview will be entered into a > separate drawing for one of two additional $100 Amazon.com gift cards. > > Here's what I promise: > 1) This survey is completely anonymous, though if you choose to > provide your name and/or your organization's name, I won't share it > with anyone. > 2) If I publish data from this study, I will only report aggregate > statistics. > 3) I will only share the raw data from the study with my research > advisor, Prof. Eric Brewer. > > Here's the link to the survey: > http://tier.cs.berkeley.edu/drupal/wisp-study > > If you have any questions, feel free to contact me either directly or > on-list. > > Thanks! > Shaddi > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > -- > > Thanks, > > Brough > > > > Brough Turner > > netBlazr Inc. Free your Broadband! > > Mobile: 617-285-0433 Skype: brough > > netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal > website > > _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless _______________________________________________ Wireless mailing list Wireless@wispa.org http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2425/5038 - Release Date: 06/01/12 -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 (765) 439-4253 (855) 231-6239
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