Tim, Yes, I understand that. I understand the factors that have to be enabled for the PHY rate to be the full 300Mbps that 802.11N 2x2 configuration allows for. You have to use 40Mhz band, short guards, and both AP and client have to have 2x2 setup. What I am talking about here is trying to improve signal strength which increases speed.
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Tim Kerns <t...@cv-access.com> wrote: > A little caution ... transmit power does not necessarily equate to > speed. > > Speed is a combination of signal strength, signal quality (lack of noise > or interference) and distance. And doubling the output power will not > result in double the speed. > > Transmit power will give you further distance, but depending on the other > factors above and the client output power you may not see any gain in > distance. > > > *From:* Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 13, 2014 4:42 PM > *To:* r...@sbnettech.com ; WISPA General List <wireless@wispa.org> > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 2dbi vs 3dbi vs 5 dbi vs 100mw vs 400mw > > We are deploying a DSL network, and Broadcom is the leader in the DSL > chipset market. So most all these modems we are using have a Broadcom SoC > design with the VDSL2 modem, 802.11N 2x2 MIMO, Ethernet Switch, and CPU all > built in. The only thing the modem manufacturers change is the power output > on the Broadcom wifi (via a amp on the broad) and the selection of internal > or external omni antennas for the most part. Plus some tweak the wifi > settings. > > We are trying to decide if it is worth the small price premium to pay for > the modem that has the high powered amp at 400mw vs the regular ones that > only have 100mw. Sounds like the the high powered ones are worth it > especially since we have no control of the clients devices (I guess you > rarely ever do anyways) and we are only supplying one AP/router per home. > > I guess this is why AT&T uverse gets such good ratings and reviews from > their customers on wifi? They are using 2Wire/Pace modems for the most part > that have all high powered wifi. Thats why in an AT&T area you can see tons > of them. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Ryan McKenzie <r...@lirr.net> wrote: > >> I second what Josh is saying. I build out a lot of hotels and large >> offices, and because of iPhones and iPads, we've started doubling up on the >> AP's we normally would deploy. In an indoor environment, it's really tough >> to do a very directional antenna because you are usually trying to cover a >> 360 deg area, so high power AP's, low gain antennas, and more AP's is >> usually the best approach. >> >> That being said, I'm curious about your specific choice of Broadcom >> radios in your first post. Usually that means you are trying to utilize >> custom firmware such as DD-WRT or Sputnik, etc. Is this the case? If so, >> it would be interesting to hear what you are trying to accomplish. I've >> played with many of those for a long time, until I really saw the >> capability and power of the Unifi, and stopped messing around with anything >> else. >> >> Just curious as Broadcom is not a radio chipset you hear much about on >> this list. >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> *Ryan McKenzieOffice 385-215-WIFICell 801-309-6161 <801-309-6161>* >> On 11/13/14 4:41 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: >> >> You are correct. It never will. Rx can only be improved by a bigger >> antenna to listen with. Antenna gain always has and will be better than >> raw power. >> >> Unless you include the other side's Tx, in which case more power and gain >> will help. In the Wifi world you're totally screwed because it's a >> terrible laptop/phone/game console/tablet/etc in which case you can't do >> ANYTHING to their devices. >> >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 6:34 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Awesome, I am already learning so much from this mailing list. So it >>> sound like the author was right. So boosting the power output on the AP >>> will more than likely boost the TX (downlink) speed on the AP side, but do >>> nothing on the RX speed side of the AP since nothing from the clients >>> sending perspective has changed right? >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:43 PM, Ben West <b...@gowasabi.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, radios will negotiate different rx/tx rates to each other, so up >>>> to 2 distinct rates for a single link. On the open source mac80211 >>>> linux-wireless driver you can see this explicitly. The rx/tx on one radio >>>> is the tx/rx on the other. >>>> >>>> root@ap1:~# iw wlan0 station dump >>>> Station 52:e6:fc:XX:XX:XX (on wlan0) >>>> inactive time: 70 ms >>>> rx bytes: 769202553 >>>> rx packets: 4644034 >>>> tx bytes: 326581907 >>>> tx packets: 465139 >>>> tx retries: 76461 >>>> tx failed: 4 >>>> signal: -56 [-57, -62] dBm >>>> signal avg: -55 [-57, -62] dBm >>>> tx bitrate: 117.0 MBit/s MCS 14 >>>> rx bitrate: 86.7 MBit/s MCS 12 short GI >>>> authorized: yes >>>> authenticated: yes >>>> preamble: long >>>> WMM/WME: yes >>>> MFP: no >>>> TDLS peer: no >>>> >>>> root@ap2:~# iw wlan0 station dump >>>> Station 62:66:b3:XX:XX:XX (on wlan0) >>>> inactive time: 10 ms >>>> rx bytes: 569548806 >>>> rx packets: 3191667 >>>> tx bytes: 412571117 >>>> tx packets: 490879 >>>> tx retries: 104831 >>>> tx failed: 1 >>>> signal: -57 [-67, -57] dBm >>>> signal avg: -55 [-62, -56] dBm >>>> tx bitrate: 86.7 MBit/s MCS 12 short GI >>>> rx bitrate: 117.0 MBit/s MCS 14 >>>> authorized: yes >>>> authenticated: yes >>>> preamble: long >>>> WMM/WME: yes >>>> MFP: no >>>> TDLS peer: no >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Colton Conor <colton.co...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In my situation, we are assuming we are dealing with a location with >>>>> one and only one AP (typical home) and most devices are tablets and >>>>> smartphones who's antenna's and power output can't be modified. Can be >>>>> either a 1 or 2 story home. >>>>> >>>>> So, how much truth is in this article: >>>>> http://tomatousb.org/tut:increasing-wrt54g-transmit-power >>>>> >>>>> The author is claiming that wifi negotiates speed (correct) but in >>>>> both directions in the uplink and downlink side. He is basically claiming >>>>> if you increase the power output at the AP, then the downstream (from AP >>>>> to >>>>> client) link rate will increase, while the uplink (Client to AP) will stay >>>>> the same. This make sense, but does wifi really established a different >>>>> PHY >>>>> rate for up and down stream. Is this correct? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Jack Unger <jun...@ask-wi.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Going from 20 dB to 26 dB will allow the AP to be heard (with the >>>>>> same reliability) at double the distance away. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. If the client power (actually the client EIRP which includes the >>>>>> antenna gain) stays the same then the "uplink" distance from client to AP >>>>>> will still be the same. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, increasing the number of APs is one possible solution. Another >>>>>> is to use a higher-gain (more directional) antenna on the AP recognizing >>>>>> that when you increase the AP antenna gain in one direction, you are >>>>>> reducing the gain (and the coverage) in all other directions. >>>>>> >>>>>> jack >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/13/2014 11:10 AM, Colton Conor wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> So going from a regular powered 100mw (20db) to a high powered 400mw >>>>>> (26db) is a 6db increase in output power. So you are saying going from >>>>>> regular to high powered is a double in coverage size? >>>>>> Doesn't increasing the power output at the AP only increase how loud >>>>>> the AP can "shout" which in term dictates how far the receiver can hear >>>>>> from? If the client can't shout back does this do any good? >>>>>> >>>>>> Most client devices today like iPads, Smartphones, and some laptops >>>>>> can't be modified to increase their antenna gain or power output. So the >>>>>> only option is to increase the numbers of APs, or the transmit >>>>>> power/antennas at the AP right? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Jack Unger <jun...@ask-wi.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> To double the communications distance (everything else holding >>>>>>> steady) requires an additional 6 dB. Knowing this, you can do the math >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the various antenna gains and power levels to determine performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jack Unger >>>>>>> WISPA FCC Technical Consultant >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 11/13/2014 10:15 AM, Colton Conor wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are comparing multiple SOHO routers and modems that have the same >>>>>>> Broadcom chipsets. All of them have 802.11N 2x2 configuration. The only >>>>>>> differences between them are if they have internal or external antennas >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> the gain of the antennas (either 2, 3, or 5dbi ratings). In addition, >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> sell a high powered wifi radio (400mw) while others have the basic >>>>>>> (100mw). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How much a difference does each of these hardware features make in >>>>>>> overall wifi performance? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wireless mailing >>>>>>> listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Support Honest Gil Fulbright for Senate<http://honestgil.com/#up> >>>>>>> <http://honestgil.com/#up> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >>>>>>> Author (2003) - "Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks" >>>>>>> Serving the WISP Community since 1993760-678-5033 jun...@ask-wi.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wireless mailing list >>>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org >>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wireless mailing >>>>>> listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Support Honest Gil Fulbright for Senate<http://honestgil.com/#up> >>>>>> <http://honestgil.com/#up> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >>>>>> Author (2003) - "Deploying License-Free Wireless Wide-Area Networks" >>>>>> Serving the WISP Community since 1993760-678-5033 jun...@ask-wi.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wireless mailing list >>>>>> Wireless@wispa.org >>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wireless mailing list >>>>> Wireless@wispa.org >>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ben West >>>> http://gowasabi.net >>>> b...@gowasabi.net >>>> 314-246-9434 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wireless mailing list >>>> Wireless@wispa.org >>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wireless mailing list >>> Wireless@wispa.org >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing >> listWireless@wispa.orghttp://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wireless mailing list >> Wireless@wispa.org >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> > > ------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > _______________________________________________ > Wireless mailing list > Wireless@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >
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