begin quoting Carlos R. Mafra as of Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 01:19:15PM +0000: > On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 at 12:14:30 +0100, BALATON Zoltan wrote: > > > > About including default dock apps in distros, I think it can be > > tricky because everyone prefers different dockapps. (For example,
Exactly! > > I'd add wmnd to control network interfaces.) If some default set is > > included then they should be Suggests instead of Requires if the > > packaging system supports that (rpm and dpkg does) because they are > > really optional. > > Everybody has their own preferences and that's OK. > > But what really makes me sad about the default minimalistic approach > is that it makes it harder for other people to try wmaker. I don't think that it's actually the minimalistic approach that's the problem... I think it's the annoyance in *finding* the windowmaker-specific packages. There isn't (at least, there wasn't, last I looked) an easy way from within WindowMaker to get a list of all the available dockapps on the system. There isn't a good way in any of the major package-management tools to get a list of dockapps that can be installed. Right there, that's a huge problem for new users. And there's a fair bit of annoyance in dropping an arbitrary application into the dock, clip, menu, or keyboard shortcut, if it isn't exactly a well-behaved application. What folks seem to like (at least when they look over my shoulder) is the minimalistic approach with *their* favorite things added in. And if we take everyone's favorite things, we might as well go to Gnome or KDE and be done with it. They've already claimed that niche. Heck, the KDE folks already diss WindowMaker in this way. "Why would you want to use WindowMaker?" I have been asked, "Why, when KDE can be made to look almost the same, close enough, and comes with a gazillion things it does?" The answer I keep coming back to is the minimalist approach. I *add* things to WindowMaker, I *take* things away with KDE. Guess what? I avoid KDE as much as possible. > I see people saying "yeah, ok, it's a nice and clean interface and > I like it, but the easiness to mount my external media makes me go > back to GNOME". Automounting takes care of that. :) [chop] > and notice how the screenshot is apparently the default setup, no > clock, no mixer no nothing, which just helps these prejudices > to grow. Basically, if you don't know what's available, you assume that nothing is. > And that just makes me sad, because distros could be more useful > in setting up a decent wmaker for a decent user experience. Stuborn > and hacky people will always find their way to enlightenment, but > others give up. People with work to get done -- which has always been WindowMaker's target, IIRC -- will drop a tool if it gets in their way. If they can't, then they will resent the tool. Depending on the experienced user to just put up with (or to be stubborn and hacky to get rid of) the new-user bling will only serve to drive those folks away. > I'd just like to help these people a bit, because more users mean > more people interested and eventually more people fixing things. Then can I suggest we approach the problem with a new viewpoint, and not merely be content to try for fourth place, chasing Gnome and KDE and MS? The problem statement, as I understand it, is that there's not enough cool stuff readily accessible on a default installation from a major distribution to get the attention of the ADD crowd. -- Stewart Stremler -- To unsubscribe, send mail to [email protected].
