Israeli ambassador says God planned "moral Israel"..and J St is a "problem"
(fwd)
Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:08 PM
The sender said:
The only problem is that the Israeli ambassador is obviously not a scholar of
antiquity.
To believe in a God who cares about history leads one to assume that there
is a reason why, some 3,00 years ago, this obscure group of nomads, wandering
somewhere around the Middle East, came up with these extraordinary notions of
a
single God, The
Egyptians got there first. Not only did they beliven in a single god
with many aspects--henotheism--they believed in a deity which was quite
unlike the cranky and punitive storm god Yahew who was always punishing
this or that person. Thevy envisioned god as multifacted and forgiving
and saw man's sins as those of stupidity rather than malice.
In
the famous period of Akhetaten and Nefertiti, the god Aten, manifested
in the solar orb, was so central that he literally overshadowed
his other aspects, except that of justice, or Ma'at.
and the extraordinary notion of universal morality.
Once
again, the Egyptians 3,000 BCE and the Hindus, followed by the Jains
700 BCE and the Buddhist ca. 600 BCE. Each had a systematic method for
understanding morality and with Jains & Buddhist, it extended into
the national world, that of animals and plants. Man was charged to live
in harmony not only with his own specie, but others as well.
And there's a
reason why that faith enabled that people to survive as a people when so many
other peoples have vanished, in spite of expulsions, inquisitions, and
massacres.
Once
again, not unique. The various types of Jews share with many groups a
long history of less than favorable events. The Nubians, who
participated in the formation of Egypt by 3100 BCE, were colonialized,
forced assimilation, resettlement and right now, are being flooded out
by the Sudanese Arabs.
The
native Americans, many of whom lost up to 90% of their population via
the germs and genocide of the Spanish and others, have now elected one
of their own in Bolivia for the first time in 500 years. In the Middle
East, the various Jewish groups--never monolithic, never
homogeneous--are simply one of many groups (Manachean, Kurds and
others) who are disenfranchised.
And there's a reason to believe why this people was given a land in
which to realize its national destiny,
If
we believe that Divinity is in real state, yes, if we don't, then
perhaps no. I for one, would prefer to speculate that the Divine is
concerned about more than location, location, location......
and to understand why that people, bound
by its faith, I don't exactly know how the word faith is used here. Wasn't
early Zionism anti-religious?
longed to return to that land, even when that people was exiled.
The
issue of the "exile" is a curious one. The Roman's usually didn't exile
any people since it ruined their tax base and cost a lot of money. I
can't think of any example of a large group being exiled, individual
cities, yes, after the healthy were sold into slavery.
It would be great if the Israeli ambassador
would take a history of the ancient world 101 course. With all the fine
scholars who have been Jewish over the last two centuries, and who
continue to contribute to human understanding of the past, the fact
that this sloppy thinking is being set forth by someone of authority
doesn't bode well for the independence of scholarship from ideology.
Seeking divine cause for political realities
is not considered modern thought. It is usually how the Jews
characterize the Muslims.
JHS
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:39:42 -0500
From: "Sadanand, Nanjundiah (Physics Earth Sciences)" <[email protected]>
To: Undisclosed recipients: ;
Subject: [AcademicsforJustice] Israeli ambassador says God planned
"moral Israel"..and J St is a "problem"
December 11, 2009,
Oren: Israel Is Part of God's Plan
By Josh Nathan-Kazis, The Forward
A fierce attack on J Street wasn't the only notable element of Israeli
Ambassador Michael Oren's address to the biennial convention of the United
Synagogue of Conservative Judaism earlier in the week.
During the prepared portion of his remarks, Oren issued a surprising
proclamation of a personal belief in a divine plan behind the creation of the
State of Israel. He said:
A God who fixes laws throughout the physical space can also intercede
through
the course of human history. Perfectly logical. To believe in the God of
history
is to believe in the reason why a tiny remnant of [the Jewish] people, rising
from the ashes of the Holocaust, returned to [Israel].
. To believe in a God who cares about history leads one to assume that there
is a reason why, some 3,00 years ago, this obscure group of nomads, wandering
somewhere around the Middle East, came up with these extraordinary notions of a
single God, and the extraordinary notion of universal morality. And there's a
reason why that faith enabled that people to survive as a people when so many
other peoples have vanished, in spite of expulsions, inquisitions, and
massacres. And there's a reason to believe why this people was given a land in
which to realize its national destiny, and to understand why that people, bound
by its faith, longed to return to that land, even when that people was exiled.
The remarks seemed well received by the audience. Oren, who says he grew up
Conservative but now attends a Modern Orthodox synagogue, is the official
representative of the Israeli government in Washington. Israel's 1948
Declaration of Independence calls Israel the "birthplace of the Jewish people,"
but does not describe the creation of the state as an act of God's will.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In Shift, Oren Calls J Street ?A Unique Problem?
Blunt Words: Michael Oren, lsrael?s ambassador, slams the dovish lobby.
By Josh Nathan-Kazis
December 18, 2009, The Forward
Breaking with his previous restraint, Israel?s ambassador to the United States
delivered an unprecedented blast against J Street, the new dovish Israel lobby
that has made waves in Washington and throughout the Jewish community.
Addressing a breakfast session at the United Synagogue of Conservative
Judaism?s
biennial convention December 7, Ambassador Michael Oren described J Street as
?a
unique problem in that it not only opposes one policy of one Israeli
government,
it opposes all policies of all Israeli governments. It?s significantly out of
the mainstream.?
After a speech that touched on the spiritual basis for and the threats to the
state of Israel, Oren issued an unscripted condemnation of J Street.
?This is not a matter of settlements here [or] there. We understand there are
differences of opinion,? Oren said. ?But when it comes to the survival of the
Jewish state, there should be no differences of opinion. You are fooling around
with the lives of 7 million people. This is no joke.?
Oren?s blunt comments contrasted with his reaction in October, when J Street
invited him to address its first Washington conference. After an extended
delay,
Oren declined the offer. The embassy issued a statement saying that it would be
?privately communicating its concerns over certain policies of the organization
that may impair the interests of Israel.? Instead, it sent a lower-level
diplomat to observe the conference.
Meanwhile, Israeli President Shimon Peres and Tzipi Livni, leader of Israel?s
parliamentary opposition, sent warm personal greetings to the J Street
conference. Several senior members of Livni?s Kadima party traveled to
Washington to address the gathering, as did Deputy Knesset Speaker Yuli TamIr
of
the Labor Party.
Shortly after the conference, Oren told a New York City audience that if the
organization addressed some of his concerns, ?there?s no reason why we can?t
have a constructive dialogue.?
But at the USCJ breakfast, Oren criticized J Street after an audience member
asked him how synagogues should respond if congregants requested that the group
be invited to make a presentation.
?Engage with them,? he said. ?But I think it?s very important that you be
up-front with them and say why these policies are outside the mainstream and
why
they are inimical to Israel?s fundamental interests.?
Oren cited J Street?s criticism of Israel?s military campaign in Gaza in
December 2008 and last January, and its support for talks with the Islamist
militant group Hamas, which has engaged in terrorism, as examples of positions
that were outside the Jewish mainstream; however, an opinion poll sponsored by
the Israeli daily Haaretz in November found that 57% of Israelis favored talks
with Hamas under certain conditions. Oren also accused J Street of failing to
reject the UN?s Goldstone report, which found Israel had committed war crimes
during the Gaza campaign. Finally, he charged that the group opposed sanctions
against Iran.
In an October interview with The Atlantic writer Jeffrey Goldberg, J Street?s
executive director, Jeremy Ben-Ami, endorsed the main Iran sanctions bill
sponsored by California Democratic Rep. Howard Berman. In an ironic twist, J
Street issued a statement advocating its passage on the day that Oren made his
remarks.
?Perhaps if he would meet with us, he could actually find out what we stand
for,
rather than having to misrepresent our position,? Ben-Ami said. ?I don?t quite
understand how it is in the State of Israel?s interest to look at J Street as a
problem, to write off an organization that represents a large number of
American
Jews.?
Also at the USCJ breakfast, Oren was asked about the November incident at
Jerusalem?s Western Wall, when police detained Nofrat Frenkel of the prayer
group Women of the Wall after she wore a tallit and carried a Torah in the
women?s section of the main Kotel plaza.
?It is not a perfect situation.? Oren said. ?We in Israel have to strike a
balance between our respect for pluralism and our respect for tradition.?
Oren said that original reports stating that Frenkel had been arrested were
mistaken, and that she was simply led away from the Kotel area.
This contradicted a first-person account by Frenkel, published in the December
9
issue of the Forward, in which she described being taken to a police station
and
interrogated.
?As we were exiting, with me carrying the Torah, a policeman met us and began
pushing me forcefully toward the nearby police station,? Frenkel wrote. ?Our
pleas and explanations that we were on our way to the alternative site were of
no use. I was transferred for questioning to the station at David?s Citadel.?
------------------------------------
Visit http://academicsforjustice.org
Contact your representatives and elected officials: use
http://cflweb.org/congress_merge_.htm
For other ways to help, see http://BoycottIsraeliGoods.org
=======
S1000+
=======
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Neil van der Linden <[email protected]> wrote:
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"World-thread" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/world-thread?hl=en.
