Let's discuss some issues for a moment and perhaps some light will shine
upon some comments.
Drew >> [qoute]The vague discussion of "some people" not approving of
skipped levels does not say that a hierarchy of headings is
required.[/quote]
The vague discussion of "some people" refers to the International Standards
Organization. In their specifications they specifically state that headings
must follow a logical order and not skip any heading tags.
http://www.cs.tcd.ie/15445/15445.HTML
[quote]
The <H1> element shall not be followed by an <H3>, <H4>, <H5> or
<H6> element without an intervening <H2> element.
The <H2> element shall not be followed by an <H4>, <H5> or <H6>
element without an intervening <H3> element.
The <H3> element shall not be followed by an <H5> or <H6> element
without an intervening <H4> element.
The <H4> element shall not be followed by an <H6> element without an
intervening <H5> element.
An <H2> element shall be preceded by an <H1> element.
An <H3> element shall be preceded by an <H2> element.
An <H4> element shall be preceded by an <H3> element.
An <H5> element shall be preceded by an <H4> element.
An <H6> element shall be preceded by an <H5> element.
[/quote]
Drew >> [quote]So if your h1 is a multiple page grouping with h2 identifying
the separate pages, that seems proper. If your h3 is used for font sizing
and appearance, that is improper. But if the h3 is used to introduce the new
shorts, that seems proper.[/quote]
First, you can have pages without headings - that I'll agree with. However,
once you start approaching any attempt to comply with WCAG you need to
follow the standards correctly.
If, for example, the SSA.gov site has a group of related links they can be
grouped under a heading tag because those links fit into a sectional
heading.
Part of using headings properly is to aid accessibility and helping people
scan the web page. Based upon those two requirements the use of heading
tags as they are in Kim's site do not qualify - therefore, they are only
font declarations and <strong> or CSS:font-weight:bold should be used to
make those elements bold.
Please explain why you might think a couple of sentences qualifies to be
under it's own sectional heading. I'd really be interested in learning the
thought process there. Two sentences do not qualify for a sectional heading
in a book; why would they in a web page?
Thanks,
Lee Roberts
http://www.roserockdesign.com
http://www.applepiecart.com
________________________________
From: Trusz, Andrew [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:08 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: [WSG]headers
>On the H1 issue, there are many people that think using an H1 around the
logo or hidden text. Unfortunately, that is improper. Your H1 should be
visible and should >support the title of the page.
>>Yes it does... but I'm also quite confused. I thought the way I set up the
page would better if you can't see the pageand have to use a screenreader.
Is it better to use >>the H1, H2 and H3 tags the way you described or is the
way I use them also OK? (and that would be H1=group describtion, H2=page
describtion and H3 as >>describtion for the paragraphs which are short news)
Kim, here's what the html4 specs say about Headings:
<quote>
A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces.
Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a
table of contents for a document automatically.
There are six levels of headings in HTML with H1 as the most important and
H6 as the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in
larger fonts than less important ones.
The following example shows how to use the DIV element to associate a
heading with the document section that follows it. Doing so allows you to
define a style for the section (color the background, set the font, etc.)
with style sheets.
<DIV class="section" id="forest-elephants" >
<H1>Forest elephants</H1>
<P>In this section, we discuss the lesser known forest elephants.
...this section continues...
<DIV class="subsection" id="forest-habitat" >
<H2>Habitat</H2>
<P>Forest elephants do not live in trees but among them.
...this subsection continues...
</DIV>
</DIV>
This structure may be decorated with style information such as:
<HEAD>
<TITLE>... document title ...</TITLE>
<STYLE type="text/css">
DIV.section { text-align: justify; font-size: 12pt}
DIV.subsection { text-indent: 2em }
H1 { font-style: italic; color: green }
H2 { color: green }
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
Numbered sections and references
HTML does not itself cause section numbers to be generated from headings.
This facility may be offered by user agents, however. Soon, style sheet
languages such as CSS will allow authors to control the generation of
section numbers (handy for forward references in printed documents, as in
"See section 7.2").
Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They accept
H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level H2 is
skipped.
</quote>
You'll notice this says nothing about pages. The text discusses identifying
main sections and subsections relating to the main section. The example
given shows headings used in a division not a page. The discussion has to do
with the logical relationship of headings to sectional topics.
Logical inference based on text and example leads to several "guidelines".
Firstly, all headings within a section must relate to the topic of the
section of which the headings are a part. The section must a logical
consistency in terms of its content. If the section discusses how to nail a
fascia board it shouldn't have instructions for laying roof tiles. So if you
extract all headings they would fall into logical and separate, possible
related, content groupings.
Secondly, the only required heading is h1. You have to start with h1 and add
subheads all of which have to be related to the h1 section topic. The vague
discussion of "some people" not approving of skipped levels does not say
that a hierarchy of headings is required. But that stricture and the section
on styling do imply that headers should not be used for font effect. Style
the header but style it within its structural usage, just as the example
does.
It might be considered de classe to use a single h1 for an entire site but
it is no more so than insisting each page have its own h1. The use of
headers is an author's choice requiring only that the header be used
correctly. Indeed there is no requirement that any headers be used. Good
writing can obviate the need for headers, although their presence certainly
makes things easier for the reader. So if your h1 is a multiple page
grouping with h2 identifying the separate pages, that seems proper. If your
h3 is used for font sizing and appearance, that is improper. But if the h3
is used to introduce the new shorts, that seems proper.
drew
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