As a govt webmaster I feel the need to jump to the defence of us here. However, I'll try to only state my observations, rather than defend.
Disclaimer: These are my personal views, not necessarily those of my organisation or the NZ government. <Darren>I get _very_ depressed when i see high profile[1] new zealand sites completely drop the ball[2]...</Darren> Me too Darren. I see this time and time again. I'm not sure if this is an education or resoursing issue or a bit of both. In my experience a lot of content comes from other media (i.e. print) and is just thrown up on the web as an afterthought (when reality is 100k people will look at the website and they'll only print 20k brochures) <Jamie>..Anyway, our main site - www.mch.govt.nz - is quite close to getting there - though not yet perfect (what is?) it generally validates and does all that stuff. We're in the process of doing a major redesign which will be very much standards-driven from concept (the current version is me trying to fix the tag soup that was there before..).</Jamie> I think that there are a lot of sites that are _getting close_. As we are learning we are improving. Stuff I did 18 months ago, still used 1 table for layout because I couldn't get it to work on NN6,Opera and IE. The rest of the styling is done with CSS. I didn't know about WSG, browser hacks or any such tricks. When I built that site concensus among govt webmaster was that we had to make it look 'ok' in NN4 also. I recently asked this question again on a govt web mailgroup and in general the opinion is that we can leave NN4 behind as far as styling goes. The agency I work for now had their site rebuilt about 18 months ago also (before my time here). Bringing a site of 1000's of document built in DW (not using any sort of .dwt template or CMS) up to standards compliance is a slow process that I am working through. Like Jamie, we're close and battling through tag soup, but not there yet. <Terence>1. Teaching institutions have appalling web design curriculum that know nothing of Web Standards. (I know I've taught them in the past, and tutored this year). 2. Web design is an easy entry market place, so everyones next door neighbor and their dog with a pirated copy of DWMX is let loose or one or two sites for a few quid.... ...Another issue with the web guidelines is they lack teeth. Adherence to the guidelines is strongly encouraged, but ultimately optional. New sites must comply, and old sites should redesign, unless the cost is prohibitive, or there is some really, really good reason not to comply.</Terence> I agree totally with your first point. their web design courses are not web design at all. they are lessons in flash/fireworks and if they're luck DW. Although on point 2: I don't think this is such an issue for government. ( although when I got my frrst fulltime web gig it was on the basis of my FrontPage skills). There is a lot of transparence around how govt agencies procure services and the local 16year old with a pirated copy of DW isn't likely to get the job. As for the guideline lacking teeth: All 'Public Sector' departments _have_ to comply (I don't recall the dates (1 June 05?). Other crown entities (I'm not sure if this applys to SOEs like TVNZ) are _strongly encouraged_ to comply. <Darren>but i think every New Zealand web developer should read this document and try to at least adhere to some of these guidelines when building websites.</Darren> Darren I agree totally. Of course there is no need for companies/individuals to comply with the govt-only parts (like 'must link to govt portal' etc.) Joe On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 19:02:09 +1300, Terrence Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > duh me. > > OK... I agree with you Mike =) > > Terrence Wood. > > russ - maxdesign wrote: > >>I agree with your thinking Russ... web standards are a means to an end > >>not the end itself. They represent a philosophy, framework or tool set. > > > > > > Jut to clarify, that email was sent by me on behalf of Mike Brown, who is > > experiencing email issues. Sorry for any confusion. > > Russ > -- > ******************************************************************* > Are you in the Wellington area and interested in web standards? > Wellington Web Standards Group inaugural meeting 9 Dec 2004. > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/go/event24.cfm for details > ******************************************************************* > > > ****************************************************** > The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ > > See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > for some hints on posting to the list & getting help > ****************************************************** > > -- If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants -- Sir Isaac Newton http://josephlindsay.com/ ****************************************************** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help ******************************************************
