Hi,
Just to put the cat amongst the peigons - some of the points raised are
valid IMHO.
and by the by so is the mark up. I think he is off mark on the use of styles
"My position is about temperance" - moderation
"‘reality in the field’ and not some ivory-tower specification" - the
reality and work arounds required to compensate for differences in
implementation
CSS Hacks for example
The Web Standards have yet to be properly implemented in the majority of
the browsers BEING USED - namely Internet Explorer
this is partly why I dub IE inferior explorer, naughty-scape a fraise I
seldom use since netscape 4.X is a beast rarely encountered in the wild
Since when are using Floats for page-level layout, semantically correct?
I disagree with him here, since floating is applied by style and is
separate from content
I think this is a contracdiction since previouly
To not use CSS - rather I am saying to use it when it makes sense…
and in the case of floating to style the layout I would say that this is
appropriate use of style - using it here "makes sense"
his contracdiction continues
"margins... to create page-level layouts. Again, like floats, this is
semantically incorrect, just like HTML tables"
the point of style - the junk/old skool use is shims / transparent gif -
I don't like such sites even when I make 'em
Some times designers can procrastinate & pontificate over semantics (and
many other things) delaying the sites completion
inflating the cost.
Rob Wilson <http://www.websitesinbusiness.co.uk> Says:
September 26th, 2005 at 3:52 am
<http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/silly-nerds-the-web-standards-are-for-browsers/#comment-33>
The real point lost in the standards debate is that everyone just wants
things to work properly and consistently.
my clients do, I do, visitors to sites I make do
Mac IE such a pain, with standards css layouts - Hacks ahoy me lad!
Win IE - what a pain
Producing visual consistantly is a long road with tables+shims
Using CSS I find things always crop up. odd spaces here and there - a
short road, can become a long road.
Marco <http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/> Says:
September 26th, 2005 at 4:56 am
<http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/silly-nerds-the-web-standards-are-for-browsers/#comment-34>
- lighter in amount of code
- easy to read on other devices than PC’s with browsers
- more accessible
- much better search engine optimized from the ground up
I agree with this also, its a pain when formating gone bad in a browser
often IE Mac/Win
Rooting out the problem in the CSS to hack compliance is tedious &
stressful client wants it done yesterday
Joshua Street <http://www.joahua.com/blog/> Says:
September 26th, 2005 at 5:05 am
<http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/silly-nerds-the-web-standards-are-for-browsers/#comment-35>
CSS bears no meaning, it’s just a presentational hook
explains where he is off base on the CSS - its the hack thats madness
and often more tricky than table + shims
Clients see competitiors sites with tables and when they see them on any
browser they are consistent (sometimes consistantly bad!! IMHO but
consistent
Stefan Mischook <http://www.killersites.com> Says:
September 26th, 2005 at 10:47 am
<http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/silly-nerds-the-web-standards-are-for-browsers/#comment-43>
*What is broken (in a pratical sense,) with the Web Standards?*
1. 60% to 80% of the browsers being used are buggy when it comes to CSSP
techniques we have to use.
2. The model for positioning with CSS is now weak. I can’t wait for the
CSS3 multi-column spec <http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/>to come of age.
but browser uptake will be somewhere behind. and putting a message for
users this site looks better in a standards compliant browser is just as
annnoying (to the user & in turn the site owner) as this site looks
better in ie
since this is a discussion list I thought we might discuss the points
atb - Sam
Herrod, Lisa wrote:
I think he's really just trying to stir up something controversial and
attract people to his site.
Surely anyone who was really serious about their own reputation and business
would actually think about what they were saying, and research their
point(less) before posting it... wouldn't they?
-----Original Message-----
From: Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2005 8:44 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] FW: Killersites.com Newsletter - Not another nerd
newsletter!
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Rippon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 26 September 2005 7:44 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] FW: Killersites.com Newsletter - Not another
nerd newsletter!
Just got this from a Killersites.com, what do you think of the article
The Web Standards Lie: How the Web Standards movement has
gone too far.
<http://www.killersites.com/newsletters/lt/t_go.php?i=10&e=MTI
zNDM=&l=http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/silly-nerds-the->
web-standards-are-for-browsers/> ?
I agree with him in the point that some people take Web Standards way too
far. Just think of the endless discussions on what the semantically correct
way is to mark up breadcrumbs. As if the world would find its end if I
decided to mark up my breadcrumbs in <p>'s instead of <ul>'s or <ol>'s or
<dt>'s...
However, the guy who wrote the article doesn't really have a clue what he is
talking about. He seems to be trying to attack Web Standards just for the
sake of opening his mouth. There is a huge difference between using tables
and using floats, but he obviously does not get that.
The article he quoted (by Vincent Flanders) makes a much better point: don't
believe Web Standards, Usability and tableless CSS is the ultimate way to
create a fantastic website. It's tools, nothing more.
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for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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