Ian Anderson wrote:
Lachlan Hunt wrote:
Many users hate popup windows. There are no valid use-cases or reasons for opening a popup window, don't do it.
I disagree with this statement. In my opinion, there are several very good use cases.
Name one for which a popup window is the only valid and, indeed, best solution!
The primary one is help windows, where instructions can be compared with the items in the main window. A variant of this is T&Cs in forms, where there are serious consequences for the user if they move off the page while in the middle of completing a form - they may lose some or all data.
While that is legitimate use-case that comes up quite often on the web, the best solution does not involve popup windows. In fact, related to the issues I discussed earlier, popup windows can be prevented and you have no idea which users do this. Thus, while relying on the popup windows to solve this problem may work for 99% of visitors, for the 1% that don't get a new window (incl. those without script and those, like myself, that explicitly disable popups), the problem you're trying to solve is still a problem.
This is one solution that doesn't involve popups, that I have actually used myself in a recent project.
That solution works acceptably for 100% of users, regardless of their support for _javascript_, popup windows or any other feature.
I think generalisations like "users hate popup windows" are perhaps a little unhelpful.
But the statement is 100% accurate. I, as a user, hate popups. I know of many others that hate popups too. I did not say "all users", just "users". Regardless of how many users that is, are you really willing to annoy them? Is it not safer to avoid using popup windows, considering that people that don't mind them won't be at all upset when they don't see them; but those that hate them, will be if they do?
I am sure a lot of people dislike popup adverts, but to dismiss all use of popups on this basis is clearly to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I'm not just dismissing them on the basis that popup adverts annoy people, I'm dismissing them for serious usability and accessibility concerns, some of which I discussed earlier. Here's another:
Every time you open an unrequested window (assuming my browser wasn't configured to block them completely), that's another window I eventually have to close. That's annoying, especially when I didn't request it. My mouse has a built in back and forward button and when you open a popup, those buttons don't work - there is no "close popup" button. It takes longer to move my mouse up to the close button than it does to push the back button with my thumb, which is just wasting my time on a tedious task I shouldn't have even been faced with.
That is absolutely no better than using the target attribute. In fact, for accessibility reasons, it is worse.
This is not true,
Yes it is. I even gave an example to explain why. Just because your usability testing failed to test the scenario I presented, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Also, because the button UI is usually turned off,
You're assuming the browser is configured to let you turn off the chrome. That's another bad assumption, because browsers can be easily configured to always show the chrome that the user wants.
there are fewer issues with users starting to surf in the new window and losing their window history, which is a problem using target _blank.
So what if they started to surf with the new window!? Is there some rule against that? It's a browser window, just like the original, It clearly doesn't really matter whether they browse with that one or any other.
What I really don't understand is that there are so many people who participate in this and various other mailing lists, newsgroups and forums that actively advise against using popups and explain why they hate them, yet you still somehow believe that users are ok with them. Newsflash: we are users too! Listen to us when we tell you outright that *we hate popup windows!* Do not use them, find a better solution.
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Lachlan Hunt
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