On 22 May 2007, at 20:40:41, Mike at Green-Beast.com wrote:
Steve Green wrote:
No, a form is not a list of form controls [...]
I agree. A form is not a list, nor is it tabular data. I know this was
originally a demonstration to show the lesser of two evils, but
evil is evil
so less wrong still isn't right. What I don't understand is why
there is
this exploration of form layout structures to begin with when a
form in of
itself is it's own form layout structure. All the needed tools already
exist.
Why is a div needed, for instance, when the fieldset is already a
container -- the proper container I might add -- for these form
controls.
While I agree that use of lists, tables or definition lists is mere
abuse, a fieldset is for grouping "thematically related controls and
labels":
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html#edef-FIELDSET>
So for example, the fields for "forename" and "surname" could be
grouped together with a fieldset, but a separate fieldset should be
used for those fields related to "billing address", "delivery
address" and so forth. Just bundling the entire contents of the form
inside a fieldset because it stops the validator whining about the
need for a block-level element is itself an abuse of the fieldset
element.
Consider a form that asks for name, address, sex and then has an
"additional requirements" textarea. While the elements of each of the
first three sections could usefully be grouped together with three
separate fieldsets, the final textarea isn't in a group of elements;
it stands alone, and the use of an element that defines a grouping of
related items becomes meaningless. However the spec requires that it
be enclosed in a block-level element, and this is when a semantically-
neutral div would be useful.
Oh, and what about the submit button - that needs to be wrapped in
something block-level too, but for most forms is not part of a group
of elements; a div is again perfectly appropriate here.
As an aside, note that screen readers will read the legend of a
fieldset before the label of every element in the fieldset, so
legends should be kept short and sweet - for example the following HTML:
<fieldset>
<legend>How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate?</
legend>
<label for="heardWeb"><input name="heard" id="heardWeb"
type="radio">On the web</label>
<label for="heardTv"><input name="heard" id="heardTv"
type="radio">On the TV</label>
<label for="heardRadio"><input name="heard" id="heardRadio"
type="radio">On the radio</label>
<label for="heardPaper"><input name="heard" id="heardPaper"
type="radio">In the newspaper</label>
<label for="heardOther"><input name="heard" id="heardOther"
type="radio">Other</label>
</fieldset>
would be presented to a screen reader user as
"How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate? On the web"
"How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate? On the TV"
"How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate? On the
radio"
"How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate? In the
newspaper"
"How did you hear about my donkey and its strange fate? Other"
which is a lot of times to be asked the same question; so make your
legend text as succinct as possible, yet still meaningful when it is
used as a prefix in this manner. If a section of the form, properly
enclosed in a fieldset, needs a chunk of explanatory text, then find
something brief and meaningful for the legend - or even leave the
legend empty - and present the explanatory text in a paragraph.
Regards,
Nick.
--
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/
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