I realize this is wsg, but why not do the whole site in flash, how many
pages could it be!
or at least do the frameset banner in flash.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:20 AM
Subject: WSG Digest
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From: John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:26:32 +1100
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good
example of an 'unobtrusive' flash player.
On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
hi,
Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid.
The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously.
What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing
music track?
I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want
some feedback of the dangers of this.
-thanks in advance
kev
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From: "Faul, Mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:26:52 -0400
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
I will be out of the office on Monday March 17. If you require immediate
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From: "Frederick Matzen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:36:59 -0600
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
If you can't talk the guy out of it then try and get him to at least allow
the USER to start the music. If not that then I would suggest teh next
course is a flash player but at half volume and make SURE that the START and
STOP button is easy to find.
I wouldn't use a frameset for anything.
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 10:26 AM, John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example
of an 'unobtrusive' flash player.
On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
hi,
Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid.
The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously.
What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music
track?
I mean the only solution that is a frameset right but i just want some
feedback of the dangers of this.
-thanks in advance
kev
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From: dwain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:58:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On 3/17/08, kevin mcmonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hi,
Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid.
The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously.
What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music
track?
i would suggest allowing the user to stop the music if they so choose. not
everybody likes the same music or song, so he could lose many visitors
because of the continuous track with no way to stop it. on the other hand a
visitor could mute the sound.
dwain
--
dwain alford
"The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
for his inner impulse must find suitable expression." Kandinsky
*********************************************************************
From: "Nick Stamoulis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:08:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
Hi Kev,
I would recommend that you do not loop music as this often does not sit well
with many types of visitors. If you offer a choice for visitors to turn off
the sound as well...
Good luck with the site!
Nick
Nick Stamoulis
President
Brick Marketing
Direct: 781-350-4365
Cell: 781-223-3651
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Â
http://www.BrickMarketing.com Â
Read Daily Updates In My Blog:
http://www.SearchEngineOptimizationJournal.com
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
From: "John Hancock" >;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, March 17, 2008 12:26
I'd use flash. http://www.gothamsounddesign.com/ is a fairly good example
of an 'unobtrusive' flash player.
On 18/03/2008, at 3:10 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
hi,
Im doing a site for a nightclub. Â So im doing a hybrid.
The owner has demanded a music track playing continuously.
What would you lot do if you had to put in a continually playing music
track?
I mean the only solution that  is a frameset right but i just want some
feedback of the dangers of this.
-thanks in advance
kev
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From: David Hucklesby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:12:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:10:31 +0000, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
hi,
Im doing a site for a nightclub. So im doing a hybrid. The owner has
demanded a music
track playing continuously. What would you lot do if you had to put in a
continually
playing music track?
Hi Kev - Because I am on dial-up at home, I get out a lot. :)
At the various Wi-Fi hotspots I inhabit, I see many surfing with their
headphones on, listening to their own sound track. I can only imagine
that, should they come across a site playing something not of their
choice over the top of their music, that they would hit the "back"
button PDQ.
I know almost nothing about SEO, but knowing a little about how
search bots work, I can't imagine them taking notice of a music
player. If it were me, I would deliver a normal web page (no frames)
and offer the visitor the choice of playing the music, or not.
Cordially,
David
--
*********************************************************************
From: "Conyers, Dwayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:12:49 +0000
Subject: RE: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
I will throw my 2 cents in and say that nothing is more annoying than going
to a web site and suddenly being bombarded with loud music you don't want
to hear. In face, I got an add-in for Firefox so that I could safely use M
ySpace without a cacophony of noises playing without my control.
Keep in mind -- there is no way to set the volume for a web-based music tra
ck. If I have volume up because I am listening to low-gain audio and then
a web page plays something at top decibel... there go my ear drums if I'm w
earing headphones...
Just my 2 cents.
--
The generation that took acid to escape reality
Is now taking antacid to deal with reality
http://dwacon.blogspot.com<http://dwacon.blogspot.com/>
*********************************************************************
From: kevin mcmonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:01:00 +0000
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction
hi,
i think if i cold sell him on a player that would be user controlled.
I will tell him he can put in more tracks by his dj's.
Sorry i meant to change the title of the post.
thanks a million.
-kevin
*********************************************************************
From: russ - maxdesign <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:41:34 +1100
Subject: Re: [WSG] SEO, fact or fiction - ADMIN - THREAD CLOSED
-----------------------
ADMIN
-----------------------
Hi all,
We have had some complaints that this "SEO, fact or fiction" thread is
off-topic.
We have left it alone till now as the list has been surprisingly (spookily)
quite for the last week. However, the thread has now gone on long enough.
So, this thread is now officially shut down.
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD
Replying to this thread could result in a warning email and a note sent home
to your mother.
Repeat offenders may be removed from the mail list, as outlined in the mail
list guidelines:
http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
If you have an issue with the closing of this thread, please do not discuss
it on list, email "[EMAIL PROTECTED]".
Have a nice seo-fact-or-fiction-free day :)
Thanks
Russ
*********************************************************************
From: Keryx Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:41:28 +0100
Subject: IE 8 and grey
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey", spelled
with an e - as it should be ;-)
Lars Gunther
*********************************************************************
From: "Adam Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:43:30 +1000
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Are you talking from a css point of view? I would advocate not using "words"
- what happens if a future browser decides that "grey" should be #66666;
where previously it was #33333; (just examples). Your design is suddenly not
going to look as you intended.
My 2c.
Adam
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Keryx Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey", spelled
with an e - as it should be ;-)
Lars Gunther
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://myfitness.ning.com
A community of people that care about their health and fitness
Free fitness videos, recipes, blogs, photos etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: Hassan Schroeder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:15:18 -0700
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Adam Martin wrote:
Are you talking from a css point of view? I would advocate not using
"words" - what happens if a future browser decides that "grey" should be
#66666; where previously it was #33333; (just examples). Your design is
suddenly not going to look as you intended.
You mean, if a browser maker decides not to support standards?? Who
would do such a thing? I can't even imagine it :-)
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/types.html#idx-color>
<http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#value-def-color>
--
Hassan Schroeder ----------------------------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com
dream. code.
*********************************************************************
From: "Thomas Thomassen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 00:24:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Because they are defined by w3c what they should map to.
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#color-units
----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Martin
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Are you talking from a css point of view? I would advocate not using
"words" - what happens if a future browser decides that "grey" should be
#66666; where previously it was #33333; (just examples). Your design is
suddenly not going to look as you intended.
My 2c.
Adam
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Keryx Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey",
spelled
with an e - as it should be ;-)
Lars Gunther
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A community of people that care about their health and fitness
Free fitness videos, recipes, blogs, photos etc.
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From: Lea de Groot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:03:51 +1000
Subject: Spolsky on IE8 flag
Joel Spolsky has published an ... interesting article
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
I wonder if Microsoft considered the approach of "IE 7 is the last
version of IE. Our new product will be $NEW_PRODUCT_NAME[1]. All old
hacks for IE are irrelevent - we're starting afresh, people!"
Sounds like its worth considering :)
After all, when I browse the web with Safari or Firefox I literally
never see a broken page, because nothing assumes I am using some
version of IE.
M2CW :)
warmly,
Lea
[1] I like "Internet Avenger" for I am a romantic. Who can think of a
better name? :)
--
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems
Brisbane, Australia
*********************************************************************
From: Chris Broadfoot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:04:07 +1100
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Keryx Web wrote:
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey", spelled
with an e - as it should be ;-)
Lars Gunther
Probably not. "grey" isn't a css colour.
*********************************************************************
From: John Hancock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:15:08 +1100
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
CSS is a US-spec language. If we suddenly start seeing 'colour:
#123456;' then I'll be delighted - but I don't think the CSS authors
are so interested in global standards ;)
On 18/03/2008, at 1:04 PM, Chris Broadfoot wrote:
Keryx Web wrote:
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey",
spelled with an e - as it should be ;-)
Lars Gunther
Probably not. "grey" isn't a css colour.
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Identity
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From: Mike Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:37:16 +1300
Subject: Re: [WSG] Spolsky on IE8 flag
Lea de Groot wrote:
Joel Spolsky has published an ... interesting article
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
I think it's a great article. And one the nails why this has created so
much heat. Among many killer quotes, this to end things:
"You see? No right answer.
As usual, the idealists are 100% right in principle and, as usual, the
pragmatists are right in practice."
Mike
*********************************************************************
From: "Patrick H. Lauke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:52:39 +0000
Subject: Re: [WSG] Spolsky on IE8 flag
Lea de Groot wrote:
Joel Spolsky has published an ... interesting article
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
Far too long, and his point is buried somewhere...
IE8b1 is a very rough beta...heck, I'd call it an alpha. They have
serious rendering issues so far, but I doubt that they'll make it into
the final version, what with that interoperability policy looming over
the IE team's head.
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
______________________________________________________________
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
______________________________________________________________
Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
______________________________________________________________
*********************************************************************
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gunlaug_S=F8rtun?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 06:21:57 +0100
Subject: Re: [WSG] Spolsky on IE8 flag
Lea de Groot wrote:
Joel Spolsky has published an ... interesting article
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
Microsoft failed to follow the evolutionary trail and keep up with
common standards - to the degree that such exists, and now they try to
catch up without causing a revolution with subsequent riots all over
IE/win-hackery land.
I wish the IE team - and us - good luck.
A fresh start would indeed be worth considering - with name and all, but
I can't see that coming :-(
I like "Internet Avenger" for I am a romantic. Who can think of a
better name? :)
It already has one: "Internet Exploder", and I'm pragmatic and can't
think of a better name until I see a better browser.
regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
*********************************************************************
From: "Alastair Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:02:37 +0000
Subject: Re: [WSG] Spolsky on IE8 flag
Far too long, and his point is buried somewhere...
It is long, but I like the headphone analogy that (I think) makes it
easier to understand the 'economics' of the situation. (Does it count
as economics when the products are free?)
I was very surprised by the IE teams decision to make the new
rendering the default, until I read Joel's thoughts on what they might
do before release.
IE is part of the MS ecosystem, and impacts Windows (e.g. will a
corporate client update to Vista if their intranet doesn't work with
IE 7/8), and things like Sharepoint (e.g. will IE8 render Sharepoint
sites ok).
On the Sharepoint note, either MS will have to re-do how it produces
front end code (a mammoth undertaking) or ensure that IE8 renders it
as IE7. How useful is that long term?
I'm very glad that MS started again with the rendering engine, and
they have made incredible progress given that fresh start, but I do
worry that it could have nasty consequences for IE (and web standards)
if the change to other parts of the ecosystem is too severe.
-Alastair
*********************************************************************
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From: Keryx Web <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:12:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [WSG] IE 8 and grey
Keryx Web skrev:
Quick question.
I have not got IE 8 beta 1 myself... Does it understand "grey", spelled
with an e - as it should be ;-)
I have researched this myself now and will set all confusion to rest!
"Grey" is a valid CSS color name defined in CSS 3, not CSS 2.1.
As has been stated previously its equivalent RGB-value is strictly
defined by the W3C, and color keywords are not deprecated. For pedagogic
reasons I use them a lot, and also when wireframing.
MSIE <= 7 does only recognize "gray". MSIE 8 beta recognizes "grey" used
as a value for CSS color, border, outline and background. It also
recognizes the value set - as you should not! - with the bgcolor
attribute. It does all of this regardless of its in quirks mode, IE 7
sub-standards mode or "we are trying for the real deal" standards mode!
(So much for UA-compatible meta switches!)
At least one webmaster will be surprised: http://www.bebt.com/ Today in
IE it's a *green* box - which is an exceptionally buggy implementation!
All this I know thanks to "Philip" on the WHATWG IRC channel:
http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/whatwg/20080317 (look at the discussion
around 23:00)
Lars Gunther
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