Bill,
Thanks for the reply – and it looks like we were sending things at the same time J My apolgies for my earlier mail as it seems we crossed paths in the night. Given your comments here, I still feel 80m will be a problem on 3590 as it gives the JA community no guidance on where to go. I also think it is a little optimistic to think that the traffic will stay on 2kHz. It will spread to at least 3kHz. The use of 3567kHz by several expeditions for F?H mode despite being outside the band segment hasn’t been the end of the world. My suggestion is still for 3565kHz – and then lets start the move through various member societies to push IARU to widen the 80m digital modes segment down 5KHz to improve global alignment opportunities with Japan. If not, well 3590 will work (and at least avoids the WEFAX broadcast transmitter in Sth Korea on 3585-3589kHz). 40m, I had like you originally considered going below 7050 but the desire to create some separation between the RTTY and FT4 contesters drove my recommendation to go above 7060. Yes it is an SSB segment (indeed digital voice is marked as a CoA in some regions for 7065) – but in that sense it is no better or worst than 7090 other than it is less likely to interfere with international DX SSB and more likely to interfere with domestic nets. 40m really is a mess and ultimately now that the world has access (since 2006) to 200kHz of the band it should be replanned properly, with CW 7000-7040, data 7040-7080 and SSB 7080-7200. Another task to take to the IARU. 20m – 14.080 – I can see a case for that – but it is RTTY heartland and will cause conflict. (A bit like the problems on 14090 at times with F/H mode). We originally dismissed 14080 for F/H mode when I was working with the KH1/KH7Z team for that reason. If it was a choice between 14140 and 14080 I would pick 14080. I would still encourage you to consider 14065 – which again is no worst off than 14140 in terms of band plan non compliance but does at least provide the separation between the FT4 and RTTY contest communities while avoiding angst with the PSK and QRP CW communities. 15m and 10m – my arguments are not strong – could easily be swayed. Finally – WRC bands – if the idea is to reuse the JT9 assignments for now..... I can understand if there is an expectation that DXers will want to use FT4 as well. I think you have to be very careful however with the word contesting and WRC bands or you will be howled down very loudly. Best make sure that on those bands only standard exchanges can be enabled and none of the fancy contesting exchange modes to preserve some face there. Again feedback most welcome! Regards, Grant From: Bill Somerville [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 29 April 2019 9:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] The FT4 Protocol for Digital Contesting Hi Grant, thanks for taking the time to look at possibilities for FT4 band slots. Comments in line below. On 26/04/2019 12:15, Grant VK5GR wrote: Joe et al, A word if I may about frequency choices. Some of those proposed for FT4 probably leave a bit to be desired. Here are some thoughts to consider: 80m 3.595 - PROPOSE 3562kHz - 3595 is completely out of band for JA completely and into the phone part of the band outside of Region 2. My suggestion based on occupancy and proximity to existing digital sub-bands is something around 3562kHz (at least keeping away from 3560 which is sometimes a CW QRP frequency). While the IARU band plans currently have digital as 3570-3590kHz a case can be made for expanding that - and given other restrictions in some countries on 80m, expanding digital down at least 8kHz to 3562kHz makes some sense. A case to be made for the IARU - but you can "help" their decision by starting to use it anyway. BTW 3600kHz is the centre frequency for IARU R3 80m disaster comms - LSB - so FT4 on 3595 USB will badly clash with that - another reason not to use 3595. 3562 kHz is a problem in both regions 1 and 2 as it is below the narrow band digital mode sub-band which starts at 3570 kHz. The only overlap with JA and the rest of the World is 3570 - 3575 kHz which is effectively 3570 - 3573 kHz if we assume USB and a 2 kHz wide slot. Having looked at as many bad plans as I can find I can only suggest 3590 kHz with an alternate of 3568 kHz for region 3. 3586 kHz is probably considered as RTTY territory so even that is not free of contention. 40m 7.090 - PROPOSE 7052kHz (inside the digital sub-band) or 7062kHz (just above the digital sub-band noting it is heavily used for SSB at least in region 3) - 7090 only makes sense in the USA! Many other countries have this as SSB voice use. The IARU digital segment is (depending on region) 7040-7060 or 7040-7060. With 7056 already being used for FT8 F/H mode on a fairly regular basis it would make sense to use say 7050 or 7052kHz instead. Note that 7090 is the designated SSB QRP frequency. I would promote 7050 for FT4. The only reason not to is that the RTTY guys if FT4 and RTTY are in the same contest might object - but during the contests the RTTY guys spread out and use anything from 7030 to 7120 anyway in complete disregard of the band plans. If they are going to be that unruly then putting FT4 down there doesn't seem all that bad. 7052 kHz is in the wide band digital mode section for region 1 and region 2 which allows packet and related modes where there are automatic stations active, so may not be compatible. As far as I can see 7047 kHz looks a reasonable choice with the main criteria being below the 7050 kHz upper limit for narrow band digital modes in regions 1 and 2. ********* 30m / 17m / 12m - should NOT have FT4 allocations at all. FT4 is a CONTESTING mode and CONTESTING is by global agreement excluded from those WRC79 bands!!! ********* FT4 is capable of the exact same operation style as FT8 and I doubt we will limit its use to contest modes only. the 30m, 17m, and 12m proposed suggestions are the same as currently used for JT9/JS8CALL, we are not encouraging increased bandwidth use on those band. If usage grows the working frequency suggestions can be revised later. 20m 14.140 - PROPOSE 14062kHz - the original proposed use of 14140KHz again is well outside the digital segments where FT4 belongs. If anything, creeping down into 14060-14070 might be considered acceptable despite not being in the band plan if the aim was to separate RTTY and FT4 users in the same contest. Going high above 14.112 (the acknowledged edge of the global 20m digital band plan segment) will be frowned upon. Take a leaf from 80m and use 14062kHz - again at least that keeps it away from the CW QRP Centre of activity and meets the objective of separating it from RTTY. 14062 kHz is below the lower limit for narrow band digital modes in all three regions at 14070 kHz. 14080 kHz is the best alternative I can come up with. It is in RTTY territory again but I don't see anything better below 14099 kHz. 15m 21.140 - PROPOSE 21062kHz - follow 20m and choose 21062kHz - although 21140kHz is the first proposed FT4 frequency that fell inside a digital subband... I don't see any issues with 21140 kHz and you are the first to suggest an alternative. What is your objection to 21140 kHz? 10m 28.180 - POROPOSE 28062kHz - again follow 20m I don't see any issues with 28180 kHz and you are the first to suggest an alternative. What is your objection to 28180 kHz? 6m 50.318 - PROPOSE somewhere below 50.313 not above. Moving above is just moving further into several countries beacon segments. Not likely to get a lot of airplay as a international contesting band for FT8 so not as critical - but my suggestion would be look below 50.313 not above. I don't understand why countries like VK are putting beacons in the 50.3 - 50.4 MHz range, I thought International coordination of 6m was moving all propagation beacons to 50.4 - 50.5 MHz. For discussion folks..... Regards, Grant VK5GR WIA Appointee to the IARU Region 3 Band Plan committee So in summary, I am suggesting amending our proposed suggested frequencies for FT4 to: 3595 kHz all regions 1 and 2 3568 kHz region 3 7074 kHz all regions 10140 kHz all regions - shared with JT9 and JS8CALL 14080 kHz all regions 18104 kHz all regions - shared with JT9 and JS8CALL 21140 kHz all regions 24919 kHz all regions 28180 kHz all regions 50318 kHz all regions Further thoughts? 73 Bill G4WJS.
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