Mike,
I am pretty sure that ICOM knows about how their TRX work; There is no value attached to the ALC meter so it could be a dB level, or a voltage it displays, or whatever. I also have quoted the manuals and if I stay within the limits ICOM suggests, all is fine and dandy; see below and please download and check yourself too. On all four below mentioned manuals, "ALC range" is the line at the meter. If you stay within that range you are OK. 7300 http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7300_ENG_Full_7.pdf page 65: When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output level within the ALC zone. 7610 http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7610_ENG_CD_1a.pdf page 40: When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output level to be within the ALC zone. 785x http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7850_7851_ENG_IM_3.pdf page 117: When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the PC’s output level so that the ALC meter reading doesn’t go outside the ALC zone. 9700 http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-9700_AdvancedManual_ENG_0.pdf page 18: When operating in the SSB data mode, adjust the device’s output level within the ALC zone. so maybe the _possibility_ is that the way Kenwood, Yaesu, et al, show ALC different. Also note the recommendation is to adjust the PC output and not drive 100% and have the TRX settings changed. and having said that, the tests and measurements so far, while limited as the R&S equipment is at the club and not here, show so far that all is fine and dandy for ICOM users. Roeland On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 5:33 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel < wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > You won't see the harmonics until you have a fairly good bit of clipping > going on. They start at a very low level and increase as the clipping gets > worse. > > Harmonics always exist... > > Why can't the manuals simply tell you where 0dB ALC is? What a > concept..... > > You want ALC for phone...it doesn't matter there and maximizes your > power. I think all they did in the manual was copy one section to the > other. > > Any clipping/compression at all will degrade your signal....even if you > can't see it. > > You want 100% level audio (with very few exceptions on some rigs with old > audio setups) coming from computer->soundcard. You adjust the gain in the > receiver and external soundcard if you have one (Signalink, RigBlaster, > etc) to limit the power. > As I recall I've only had one rig where we couldn't get 90-95 watts with > no ALC. > > Mike > > > > > > On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 9:19:30 AM CDT, Roeland Jansen < > roeland.janse...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > In the *Icom manual* it states, “When operating in the SSB data mode, > adjust the device's output level to be within the *ALC* zone.” So > contrary to the old rule that *ALC*fluctuation is bad, that is not the > case with these new SDR transceivers. (from someone else's view) > > The ALC zone is in this case anywhere between no deflection and > approxumately half way. There is a line drawn and outside of that line, > you're getting in trouble. > > I tested this with the 7851 (200W out) and an IC7300 w/o antenna and it's > as clean as it gets. Overdriving far beyond the line, results in side > skirts that you easily can see at the scope. > (and then they are S1..2 while the carrier is at 9+40). > > > the copy/paste I did was from the 7851 manual > The 7300: > > In the SSB mode, touch the TX meter to select the ALC meter and adjust > until the meter reading swings between 30 to 50% of the ALC scale > > and 50% is halfway where the red zone ends. Now the red zone is the line > as mentioned before so you only need to keep it in th ALC zonde and not > beyond. > > I do have the mod levels of all the transceivers default and vary the > output with the slider in the wsjtx s/w > > > now. for the fun of it > > 9700 USB mod level 50% as per default. > TX slider is at -20.1 dB > ALC is now at the end of the red line so just in the limit; Output is > 10.3W on 23. output looks clean. > At -37.2dB there is no deflection of the ACL anymore, output is 5.9W at 23. > > The 7300 shows similar values where ALC is deflected and the 7851 does not > "see" garbage > > 7851 > > USB level as per default 50% > TX slider is at -20.4 dB > ALC is at the end of the red line, in limit, output is 207W; the 7300 > scope as rx does not see garbage left/right > At -36.8 dB ALC starts deflecting; Output is 206W. > > Don't know if that gives you some insight. > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:18 PM Black Michael via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > Gary -- I've work on a dozens of rigs...probably including all the ones > you have. > > If you are unable to get at least 90W with no ALC then something in your > audio path is incorrect. > > I'd like to work with you and ensure that either my directions need > updating or your settings need updating. > > Did you follow the procedure in the document I sent? That has worked on > every rig/audio combo I've tested which is over 300 operators now. > > Can you call me an we can hook up and figure this out? Gotta' make sure > the info I'm putting out is as inclusive as possible. > > 321-690-2551 > Mike W9MDB > > > > > On Thursday, June 6, 2019, 1:24:58 AM CDT, Gary - K7EK via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > Absolutely. I own six different Icom HF rigs. All of them put out > minuscule power unless there is a significant deflection on the ALC meter. > The no ALC warning does NOT apply to all rigs. I agree with RTFM. You > cannot go wrong. > > Best regards, > > Gary, K7EK > > Radcliff, KY (EM77at) > > > Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=15038> > On Jun 5, 2019, at 15:42, Ron WV4P <wv4...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Contrary to common belief.. You better feed that 7300 some ALC if you > want it to perform. All radios are NOT the same and some need ALC. Ron, > WV4P > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 2:34 PM Tom Ramberg via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread. Now Trying to delete it and > repost- > > OH6VDA Tom > > Sendt fra min iPad Air 2 > > 5. jun. 2019 kl. 22:26 skrev Tom Ramberg < oh6...@yahoo.com>: > > I just checked my computer soundcard settings and followed your procedure > to set up the radio, the computer and the tranceiver, resulting in a > seemingly dramatic enhancement of operation efficiency. For one thing > (operator error, no doubt), I've never checked that the sound card sample > rate was 48kHz 16-bit before, and of course it was not. Thanks a lot! > > 73 de Tom OH6VDA > > Sendt fra min iPad Air 2 > > 5. jun. 2019 kl. 15:01 skrev Black Michael via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>: > > For the IC-7300 you want the ALC meter to show no action at all. So if it > ever bumps up at all you've got too much audio going into the rig and need > to back off the USB Mod Level. > > You should be able to transmit 100W with no ALC (or very close to 100W). > > That is the goal of all rigs....some of the newer rigs will show < 0dB ALC > (e.g. K3) though so it pays to learn what your ALC meter is really telling > you. The way you do that is set your rig for 100W, WSJT-X power slider at > -3dB, computer audio out at 0dB, then adjust rig/external sound to show 50W > tranmit power going out. That should be 0dB ALC and shows you what to > expect when transmitting close to the 100W. Many rigs cannot do 100W with > no ALC so have to back off to 95W maximum or such. So as you gradually > increase the power slider in WSJT-X (use the up cursor key) watch your ALC > as you approach 100W. If you start seeing ALC you have to back off the > audio level at the rig or external sound card so the WSJT-X slider can be > at 0dB and no ALC showing. > > de Mike W9MDB > > > > > On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 12:06:34 PM CDT, Black Michael via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > If you reduce power from WSJT-X (not from the rig) does your ALC drop? If > so...that's too much audio. > > Mike > > > > > On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:57:44 AM CDT, Gene Marsh < w8...@me.com> > wrote: > > > Mike, > > My ALC is ~25% @80W. But, I have no issues with transmit. Only observing > the double decode. Everything else is good. > > 73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene” > Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS) > 3905 Century Club - Master #47 > DV2/W8NET in the Philippines > Licensed since 1974 > > On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:46 PM, Black Michael < mdblac...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > I do believe 63% audio on the IC7300 is wayyyyyy too much audio. What > does your ALC meter say? > > de Mike W9MDB > > > > > On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 11:44:04 AM CDT, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel < > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > Joe, > > My setup: > > Windows 10 Pro - see the pic: > > <image1.jpeg> > > > -rc7 > IC-7300 > USB audio codec @66% volume > > Need more info? > > I will try to save a wav file next time I see it. > > > 73 de W8NET Miles / “ Gene” > Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS) > 3905 Century Club - Master #47 > DV2/W8NET in the Philippines > Licensed since 1974 > > On Jun 4, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Joe Taylor < j...@princeton.edu> wrote: > > Hi Gene, > > I have seen nothing like the duplicate decodes you report. Please send us > the .wav file for one or two of your examples, and tell us something about > your computer setup. > > -- 73, Joe, K1JT > > On 6/4/2019 11:39, Gene Marsh via wsjt-devel wrote: > > FT4: I have seen 7-8 times, double decoding. Always a strong signal. > Example: > > image1.png > > I saw that in the early days of FT8. > > Except for that, it’s working really well. (Thank you Joe and your team) > > 73 de W8NET Miles / “Gene” > > Secretary, Portage County Amateur Radio Service (PCARS) > > 3905 Century Club - Master #47 > > DV2/W8NET in the Philippines > > Licensed since 1974 > > _______________________________________________ > > wsjt-devel mailing list > > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > <image1.jpeg> > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > ------------------------------ > > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > > _______________________________________________ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel >
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