> We chose these tasks after reading and summarising > support queries to Mendeley support
These queries are a mix of private emails and public posts on http://support.mendeley.com/ and http://feedback.mendeley.com Regards, Rob. On 11 October 2012 11:25, Carles Pina <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > > On 10 October 2012 16:06, Rintze Zelle <[email protected]> wrote: >> I currently don't have access to the server hosting >> citationstyles.org. Ammon Shepherd from CHNM installed and maintains >> the domain's WordPress installation, and I presume any requests for >> changes to the website (once we agree on what those should be) should >> primarily be directed to Dan Stillman. Related, I have asked Dan if he > > ok, I'm sure that when we agree what we want we will be able to do it, > somehow (since the CSL Editor doesn't need anything out of common). > >> Regarding my opinion about hosting the editor on citationstyles.org: >> I'm impressed by the progress made by Steve. The "Search by name" and >> "Search by example" tools are useful and quite straightforward to use. >> But with regard to the Visual editor, I really would like to see some >> accompanying documentation before giving my full support for hosting >> the editor on citationstyles.org. I think it would be very useful to > > In Mendeley we want to do (video or written) some documentation. > > Maybe having the editor available to everyone would speed up the > process or the documentation, since different people could contribute. > See the thread > http://xbiblio-devel.2463403.n2.nabble.com/csl-training-ideas-for-methods-good-practice-etc-td7578250.html > (and perhaps Sebastian Karcher's email > http://xbiblio-devel.2463403.n2.nabble.com/csl-training-ideas-for-methods-good-practice-etc-tp7578250p7578255.html > ). The CSL Editor could be useful in some CSL course where we could > get some feedback and maybe some documentation could be generated as > part of the course. > > (this doesn't mean that we should not do some documentation ASAP in > Mendeley or here in xbiblio-devel users). > >> provide instructions on how to make some basic style modifications >> that demonstrate the various features (and, perhaps, also the >> limitations) of the editor. I know that there are already people that >> have used the editor with success, but I personally find the editor >> hard to use for anything more than small edits that don't affect the >> overall structure of the style (my biggest problem is that I find the >> left-hand column much less informative/readable than the raw XML). If >> your own experiences are different, it would be valuable to describe >> those. > > During the project we did some user testing to users who didn't know > about CSL. If I remember correctly we (Steve R or myself) sent to here > the tasks that we asked them to do (I couldn't find it now... but I > remember discussing it). > > Some of the tasks were simple changes in CSL styles (other tasks were > search a CSL style, etc.): > "23. Edit the style for the Journal of Community Health to put the > inline citation between parentheses: ( ) instead of square brackets: [ > ].", " > "24. Replace the comma between the inline citation numbers with an > ampersand: &." > "25. Make the inline citation bold." > "26. Give the Author names in the bibliography small-caps formatting." > > The user testing was done to 5 users (we wanted to do another round of > usability testing/online one but we ran out of time). I've just > re-read the Testing Notes and it went quite well to these tasks (the > point 24. was the weaker because the users had problems to add more > citations). > > We chose these tasks after reading and summarising support queries to > Mendeley support (I think that it's quite aligned with the Zotero's > forum questions). We found that the majority of the requests says "I > want this style but with this small change" (because some particular > need) or "This style has this problem, how can I fix it?". > > I don't think that the CSL Editor is useful to create styles from the > scratch (I hope that with the current number of styles no one will > think a completely new approach to cite!), and probably it's not very > useful to do major changes to the styles. > >> On a side note, I've been trying to think of ways we can improve the >> documentation for people that wish to edit styles. We have the >> specification, which is very detailed, but is based on the structure >> of the CSL style/locale files, explaining what each element/attribute >> does. I'm wondering if it makes sense to write an accompanying >> document that does the exact reverse: start with a list of desired >> goals (e.g. "how do I render an author surname in small-caps?", "how > > funny enough the render the author surname in small-caps is one of the > tasks that we had in the usability testing, with these results: > -Subject 1: Used tree structure to navigate to Author names in bibliography. > -Subject 2: Clicks on example reference and edits style. > -Subject 3: Likes that it highlights as you hover. Clicks on name. > Clicks on Smallcaps. That was easy. > -Subject 4: Clicks on small caps in bottom pane. > -Subject 5: Clicks on small caps in bottom pane. > > I have to say that this was the fourth task of this type and some > users already knew where they should look. > >> do I make a date localize?"), and then focus on the CSL XML needed to >> meet that goal. I like the idea, but it would be a significant >> undertaking, probably matching or exceeding the specification in size. > > it also would require some extra-effort for users who never wrote XML, > they don't know what is an element/attribute, need to validate the > styles... > > I think that I can explain to my mother how to do small changes using > the CSL Editor, but I would not dare to start explaining to her how to > do changes to the XML file. Indeed I know that some users would feel > more comfortable with the CSL file than the CSL Editor. > > As I mentioned: I think that it's important to have the CSL Editor up > and running (beside the Mendeley integrated instance) to get feedback > and see if it's useful or not, how to improve, etc. > Documentation needs to be done, I agree. > >> >> Rintze >> >> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I definitely think it'd be a good idea. The site is hosted by the Zotero >>> guys. Am not sure whether we need their help to get it setup (perhaps not >>> because no db), or whether Rintze could do it (with help)? >>> >>> On Oct 10, 2012 7:00 AM, "Carles Pina" <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Here at Mendeley we are working to integrate the CSL editor with our >>>> desktop application. >>>> >>>> But I still think that would make sense to have an instance of the CSL >>>> editor which one is not reference manager specific. In some place like >>>> http://citationstyles.org/editor >>>> >>>> Reference managers could send the users to this CSL editor instance >>>> instead of the http://steveridout.com/csl/visualEditor/ . And maybe >>>> Steve Ridout would like to not host it endless :-) >>>> >>>> I feel that it's important to keep the editor used by a wide >>>> community, to get feedback and ideas to improve it, bugs, etc. and >>>> also to build a community around it to see what next could happen. >>>> >>>> I'm happy to assist or install the editor in some server (I've done in >>>> a couple of test servers here). It requires an Apache, PHP server. >>>> Mysql not needed. The editor is mainly all done in Javascript. It's >>>> not complicated to install. If you want some help just write to me in >>>> private (instructions >>>> >>>> https://github.com/citation-style-editor/csl-editor-demo-site/blob/master/README.md >>>> but some experience may be handy). >>>> >>>> Is this possible? Does some of you think that could be useful? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Carles Pina | Software Engineer >>>> http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/Carles-Pina/ >>>> >>>> Mendeley Limited | London, UK | www.mendeley.com >>>> Registered in England and Wales | Company Number 6419015 >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM >>>> Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly >>>> what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app >>>> Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! >>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM >>> Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly >>> what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app >>> Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! >>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> xbiblio-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. Deploy New Relic APM >> Deploy New Relic app performance management and know exactly >> what is happening inside your Ruby, Python, PHP, Java, and .NET app >> Try New Relic at no cost today and get our sweet Data Nerd shirt too! >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic-dev2dev >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > > > -- > Carles Pina | Software Engineer > http://www.mendeley.com/profiles/Carles-Pina/ > > Mendeley Limited | London, UK | www.mendeley.com > Registered in England and Wales | Company Number 6419015 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Don't let slow site performance ruin your business. 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