On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Charles Parnot <[email protected]> wrote: >> 1) what the project would be to fix the problem? Is it a full-blown >> repository web app, for example, that could tightly integrate with the >> editor, that had the sort of broader review model I've previously >> advocated (e.g. that makes it easy and attractive for non-technical >> users to become style editors and reviewers)? > > I have recently come to the conclusion that a more attractive style editor, > that could be used by "regular" people is not the way to go. Unfortunately, > such a style editor will be really hard to do, and I am not even sure it can > be done. I feel like the resources put into such an effort would be better > spent in creating new styles, fixing existing ones, and cleaning things up. > And yes, writing tools that help with this is also a good thing, but we have > to strike the right balance between "user-friendly" and "developer-friendly". > The recent Travis stuff has been very very useful, and a great asset for the > project. I don't know if I would have dared to create all those Springer > styles without it. And it was really set up very quickly, with relatively > small efforts (of course, it looked like it from my end!), aided by somebody > who knew the setup and approached things in a very pragmatic way. > > A grant to write a great CSL editor might be more sexy than paying somebody > to just go through styles, but it would be more efficient for the project IMO. > > If you think of the CSL styles as code, then the distinction between a user > and a developer is clear: the user is writing a paper and wants their f**ing > bibliography to be done (but is OK reporting a problem) and the developers > are the person contributing to the code (the XML!). Now, if we distinguish > between the CSL "user" and the CSL "developer", there are still things that > could be better done for both categories. > > For the users: > > - a better style browser, including a way to find a style that matches what > they want (and yes, the current csl-editor is a good start for that) > - a better reporting tool for style issues, where such report should have > clear fields about the expected output, the actual output, and the value of > the different fields (ideally, with citeproc-js showing the output, so a user > can reproduce the 'bug')
Two years ago, I built a little plugin for Zotero for this purpose: https://bitbucket.org/fbennett/csl-feedback-zotero I'm pretty sure it will no longer run against current code, but it added a "Report style error" button to the document dialogs (edit citation, edit bibliography). The user would fix up the citation (using the wysiwyg editor already offered in the dialogs) and click a submit button. A complete test was added to a "CSL Submission" group, tagged for the style. The idea didn't catch on at the time (the execution was hackish), but maybe something could be done with the idea of a "reporting API" for CSL projects. If you had infrastructure for style-level testing, quality evaluation could be automated to some degree, and that might (just thinking out loud) open a path to sustainability through "sponsored styles" or somesuch. Frank > > > For the developers: > > - a better style browser (the same as the one for the users!!) > - a more strict process for submitting styles (what we discussed about pull > requests) > - a better development environment, and the csl-editor has actually some very > interesting components there; but again, we are talking about an editor for > technical people, and that's fine, let's focus on that > > Charles > > > On Mar 30, 2013, at 8:21 PM, Bruce D'Arcus <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Rintze Zelle <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> ... >> >>> Personally, I would really like to see the process of submitting >>> styles to the repository become more automated. Sebastian Karcher, >>> Charles Parnot and I spend a lot of time handling style submissions. >>> The volume of style submissions has increased quite a bit over the >>> past year, and a large fraction of the work is just making sure that >>> the submissions are done correctly. While I have tried to document the >>> process as clearly as possible for users, we still deal with a lot of >>> incorrect GitHub pull requests, submissions of invalid CSL styles and >>> style metadata that hasn't been entered correctly. My motivation to >>> continue to perform this labor for free has its limits, so I welcome >>> any thoughts on how to lessen this burden. >> >> I think this is the key, and as you suggest, is not really sustainable. >> >> So the question is how we address: >> >> 1) what the project would be to fix the problem? Is it a full-blown >> repository web app, for example, that could tightly integrate with the >> editor, that had the sort of broader review model I've previously >> advocated (e.g. that makes it easy and attractive for non-technical >> users to become style editors and reviewers)? >> >> 2) how do we fund it? >> >> On 2, I'm not really sure, but think some kind of logical >> institutional home would be helpful. What would be the appropriate >> medium and forum for us to explore different options (like, if a grant >> app, who would do it, and how?) here? >> >> Bruce >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Own the Future-Intel(R) Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 >> Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. Compete >> for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game on Steam. >> $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. Submit your demo >> by 6/6/13. http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/12124-176961-30367-2 >> _______________________________________________ >> xbiblio-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel > > -- > Charles Parnot > [email protected] > twitter: @cparnot > http://mekentosj.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 > Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. > Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game > on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. > Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d > _______________________________________________ > xbiblio-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Own the Future-Intel® Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d _______________________________________________ xbiblio-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/xbiblio-devel
