Hey Martin, thanks for the feedback!
I see your point, the easier to use the better. And I also don't like
messing too much with dialogues in flight.
The dialogue i have in mind must be very easy and fast to use. Big
buttons, limited number of time choices, default setting....
The reasons I would prefer a dialogue to set the warning supression time
are:
- "Intuitivity": Every user will understand what the software is doing
without understanding complex warning algorythms or reading in the manual.
- Flexibility: The pilot can cover a lot of possible scenarios. Only he
knows whats the situation and how long he would prefer not to be
bothered by warnings...
- Predictability: i.e. if I intend to fly along or circle close to an
airspace border, I want to be warned that it is there in the first
place. But within a tight maneuver I always want a free view on the
movingmap and be sure no warning pops up and i can't see the map
anymore. That would be worst case in my opinion ;-)
- Probably less possible calculation bugs and easier/faster to implement
in xcs
- Personal experience: I've flown with a dialogue warning time
configuration in and found it practical and flexible
Maybe a way to make most people happy would be:
-keep the proposed function of the buttons "Ignore AS Day" and "Ignore
AS always" as in my first mail
-Add a configuration entry for the "Cancel Warn" Button in SetupSystem:
-Fixed time x sec (old school, like one of the buttons works
now,..... i think.... :-D ) or
-Dialogue time (as i proposed) or
-Auto mode (kind of like you proposed)
What do you think? Other opinions?
Greets
Henrik
Am 07.12.2010 15:51, schrieb martin.kopp...@gmx.de:
I am not sure if I want to set a warning/ignore time interval during
flight, it appears too much hassle. Instead I propose to automatically
reset the warning after the "ignore" button has been pressed when I
get near the airspace next time. There could be a distance increment
rather than a time increment, then. This distance should be greater
than any manoeuvre I might perform inside a thermal, though.
Result: I get near, I get a warning, I either ignore or acknowledge.
If I ignore, I get no new level 1 warning unless I move away from the
airspace say a few hundred meters and get back near it later.
If I ignore and still get closer I get a level 2 warning directly
before entering.
If I acknowledge, and enter the airspace, I get a signal when I enter
and that's it.
Could be an alternative to fiddling with time intervals in dialogues.
I hate dialogue input in flight ... ;0)
Viele Grüße,
Martin Kopplow
Mobil +49 171 7984740
---
Am 07.12.2010 um 14:32 schrieb Henrik Bieler <henrik.bie...@gmx.de
<mailto:henrik.bie...@gmx.de>>:
Hello,
I agree with you Roman, the airspace dialogue is not intuitive at all.
I have been flying with XCS for about two years now, and I think this
is a great software, however I struggled with the airspace warning
dialogue several times and I did not really understand it up to now.
I'm sure I'm not the only one ;-)
Please comment how you like my suggestions below. If there is
positive feedback I can create a ticket.
_*Button/function layout:*_
_Still Outside the Airspace_ (*Warning Level 1*) :
Button "Cancel Warn" -- > opens dialogue to set the time until the
next*Level1-warning* regarding this arspace will occur. Should be an
easy to use dialoge with a preset value changable by up down arrows
in intervals like (30s, 1min, 2min, 5min, 10min, 15min, 30min, 1hr,
2hrs,day) and default for example at 2min
Button "Ignore AS Day" --> Does not warn (Level1 and Level2) for
this AS until XCS is restarted. (Reenabling should be possible over
an airspace info dialogue)
Button "Ignore AS always" --> For warning-irrelevant airspaces, like
FIRs, Country Borders formed as Airspace, Airspace E etc...
This button should be protected with a dialoge "Do you really want to
ignore this Airspace PERMANENTLY? Yes/No"
The disabled airspaces should not be warned for anymore until they
are explicitly reenabled (over an airspace info dialogue) and the
disabled airspaces should be drawn only as borders.
Maybe this button should not go in the warning dialogue but instead
for example in the airspace info dialogue (where the AS can be
reanabled as well)
_Inside the Airspace_ *(Warning Level 2)*:
Button "Cancel Warn" -- > opens dialogue to set the time until the
next*Level2-warning* regarding this arspace will occur. Details same
as above.
Button "Ignore AS Day" ----> see above
Button "Ignore AS always" ---> see above
Am 05.12.2010 19:06, schrieb Roman Stoklasa:
Hi developers,
this mail is a kind of reaction for comment for my ticket #520
(http://xcsoar.org/trac/ticket/520), and I would like to invoke a little
discussion about Airspace Warnings system.
The comment for the ticket is:
jwharington wrote:
Not a bug --- the ACK space only acknowledges intrusion for the time
limit specified as the "Acknowledgement time"in the configuration. If
you have permission to be in the airspace, set "Ack day".
I have tested it in the alpha9 build, and it is really as jwharington have
described. But I think, that this is not good behavior, at least it is not
very intuitive at all.
What would I expect as a normal user (pilot)?
- on the Airspace Warning dialog we have 6 buttons:
-> ACK Warn - I expect, that this button is used, when the pilot would
like to say "Thanks XCSoar, I'm aware of the airspace, but I'm not
planning to enter it, or I don't have the ATC clearance yet." So the pilot
will press the "ACK Warn" and the dialog will disappear. If another
warning is generated, the Airspace Warning dialog will pop-up again to
warn the pilot (but not earlier than the configured time - for example
such "Acknowledgement time").
-> ACK Space - I expect, that this button is used, when the pilot would
like to say "I'm sure, that I can enter this airspace this time - I have
the ATC clearance or I know, that this airspace is not activated at this
moment". So pilot will press this button and the airspace will become
"blank" for the whole period, during which he is inside the airspace. He
will not be disturbed about that airspace during this period. But, when he
leave the airspace, the airspace will become active again (after some
timeout or if he fly more than X km far from the border - to avoid
'bouncing' if the pilot is for example circling at the border of airspace).
-> ACK Day - I expect, that this button is used, when the pilot is
sure,
that the airspace is not activated this day, so he need not bother about
it. Once the airspace is being "ACK Day"-ed, it will be deactivated until
XCSoar shut-down.
-> Enable - in my opinion, this button should be renamed to
"Activate",
if I understand it right. This button can be used if the pilot would
explicitely activate some airspace, he has (maybe by mistake) deactivated
(either with "ACK Space" or "ACK Day"), because he would like to obtain
warning to avoid this airspace.
-> Close - this button should close the Airspace dialog without any
action - it is very similar behavior to the "ACK Warn", but I suggest,
that there could be another timeout parameter. Pilot usually use this
button when would like to say "Don't bother me now, I have another
troubles!" or just to close the dialog he has manually invoked.
In my opinion, the behavior which is currently implemented in XCSoar
6.0-alpha9 is insufficient. The only practically useful button is "ACK
Day", because only this button will get you rid off the annoying airspace
warning dialog. Could someone please explain to me the following questions:
- what is the difference between ACK Warn and Close button?
- what is the difference between ACK Space and ACK Warn (when I'm
inside/outside of the airspace)?
- how can I achieve: I leave some controlled airspace (for which I had
ATC clearence) and when I will be returning back to it from a flight
(after some time - for example 2 hours) I want to be warned that I need to
ask for another ATC clearence. How to achieve this without manually
'Activating' each airspace I have left?
Or could somebody please write the exact meaning of each button from the
current implementation of Airspace Warning dialog?
I don't know in which "airspace enviroment" are you flying, but
unfornutelly in Czech Republic, there are plenty of airspaces (military
and civil), and especialy for me, the airfield Medlanky is located at the
border of CTR and below the TMA. So every single flight consists of flying
through many airspaces - so the Airspace Warning dialog is very vital tool.
Moreover, the very first message of XCSoar after startup says "Don't
forget to maintain effective lookout!", but the "fighting" with airspace
warnings in current form is the right opposite of this. :(
There are many other "difficulties" with Airspace Warning dialog, which
could be changed in order to make the work with it more effective and
intuitive.
I can provide you with the data files, if somebody of you would like to
make short flight (even with simulator) by yourself, to see how many
warnings one could obtain during the single flight.
Thanks for you replies and your opinions.
Best regards,
Roman Stoklasa
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