Just to quote the IGC on this:
"A geometric figure on the ground bounded by two
lines-of-constant-bearing
_from_ a Turn Point, a maximum distance from that point, and,
optionally, a
minimum distance from that point."
http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/files/sc3a.pdf - Page 25
Turbo
Am 27.12.2010 11:19, schrieb Mike Forster:
Hi Tobias
I am not suggesting SeeYou or XCsoar are wrong, just that they are
different. In a task sheet produced by SeeYou there might be a line
such as -
*DNG Dunning* 20.6km 311° Rmin=3281ft, Rmax=6.0km, Brg1=230°, Brg2=90°
To get an approximation to this in XCS you have to set the task type
to AAT. You can't create an exact equivalant in XCSoar because XCS
only has a single radius but to create the area without the Rmin you
set the Type to be Sector, a radius of 6km, a Start radial of
90+180=270 degrees and a finish radial of 230 - 180 = 50 degrees.
Since SeeYou is so widley used by competition organisors for scoring
and task setting I was hoping that the same convention would be used
to save having to add/subtract 180 and then trying to decide which
order they should be in.
This is a different problem from the fact that in trying to simplify
matters by having different task types, each with different sector
types you have in fact have made it more complex because the user now
has to know what sector types are supported by the different task
types. I still haven't found a task type that supports a start sector
of a half cylinder which is quite common here in the UK. You can start
out the side of the half cylinder, out the top or out the front.
My thoughts are that you give the user the flxibility to set any type
and size of sector and if they stuff it up then that's their problem,
rather than trying to second guess what some evil task setter might chose.
Regards,
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Tobias Bieniek <tobias.bien...@gmx.de>
*To:* Mike Forster <mike_fors...@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Sun, 26 December, 2010 21:26:57
*Subject:* Re: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
Hey Mike
I don't have a lot of SeeYou experience and I had a really hard time
creating a task with a waypoint sector like that... Could you guide me
through it so I can check what the problem with SeeYou is in this
case?! Actually I think that SeeYou might be "wrong" in this case...
If I have a sector from 90deg to 120deg, I would expect it to be on
the south east and not on the other side...
To be honest I remember myself flying one or two competitions where
SeeYou was used and I never had any problems with the way these
sectors were given on the task sheet. Have you verified that 5.2.x
also has the same behavior than 6.0?!
Turbo
Am 26.12.2010 18:04, schrieb Mike Forster:
Hi Tobias
Attached is a jpeg showing a SeeYou task with the sector at DNG using
the parameters I gave. The horizontal boundary running east - west is
the line with bearing 90 degrees, whereas it would be 270 degrees in
XCS. i.e. if you were on the line the bearing To the turn point would
be 90 degrees but you are 270 degrees FROM the turnpoint.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Tobias Bieniek <tobias.bien...@gmx.de>
*To:* Mike Forster <mike_fors...@yahoo.co.uk>
*Cc:* xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Sun, 26 December, 2010 16:47:04
*Subject:* Re: [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
Hi Mike
We are working on the problem with the second radius...
As for the bearing problem you described, I can't reproduce it. The
bearings of the sectors are usually based on north and turn
clockwise. Not sure what you mean by TO and FROM, because the
bearings are not depending on the direction of the next/prev
turnpoint. I've tried it with your example and it showed exactly the
north-west sector...
Turbo
Am 26.12.2010 17:20, schrieb Mike Forster:
Hi Rob,
I like the idea of having default types of start points, turn points
and finish points but I think you need to give the user complete
flexibility to set these rather than forcing them to use e.g. "BGA
Fixed Course sector". I like the way SeeYou does it using a
Direction (Fixed value, Symetrical, To Next Point, To Previous
Point, To Start Point), two radii and 2 angles.
I note in V6.0 that when the task type is AAT that an Area Sector
type turn point only has a single radius but here in the UK they are
sometimes set with 2. SeeYou also defines the bearings TO the turn
point, not from it like XCSoar. A task sheet might say something
like "Rmin=3281ft, Rmax=6.0km, Brg1=235°, Brg2=90" which defines a
sector north west of a turn point. (I have no idea why it mixes ft
and km for the units!). If XCSoar used the same convention it would
save having to add/subtract 180 degrees from the numbers on the task
sheet.
Great work from all involved in V6.0. Now I just need some hardware
I can see in bright sunlight.
Mike
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Rob Dunning <r...@raspberryridgesheepfarm.com>
*To:* xcsoar-user@lists.sourceforge.net; jwharing...@gmail.com
*Sent:* Fri, 24 December, 2010 16:55:36
*Subject:* [Xcsoar-user] Task manager mocks for 6.1
I created an interactive mockup of the task manager for 6.1.
It does three things differently from 6.0:
1) You create a new task by simply adding turnpoints. When you're
done, it tells you what kind of task you've made -- you don't have to
specify anything before building the task.
2) New configuration page (a la version 5.2.4) where you define your
default turnpoint, start, and finish types.
3) New "Nationality" option in the configuration, so the turnpoint
types used by your country are presented first when you edit a
turnpoint (e.g. British Gliding Association "Fixed Sector").
Thoughts?
http://tinyurl.com/XCSoarDevRLD/TaskManager/TaskManagerMocks2.pdf
Rob
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