Dear David:
Whatever are you talking about? I assume "William" refers to me - what
do I have to do with the XML EDI Experts Chat Room proposed by Brian
Nielsen?
Except for the tortuous rambling, making much of your post
unintelligible, your e-mail makes it sound like I jealously want to set
up an alternative forum for discussing XML/EDI. I have better things to
do. Your diatribe is certainly one more reason for DISA to reconsider
hosting the XML-EDI Listserver: I doubt they would consider it prudent
for the "moderator" of one of their listserves to insult an active
member of ANSI ASC X12 and UN/EDIFACT EWG, longtime sponsor of, and
participant in, the ASC X12 Trimester meetings, and vendor participant
in every DISA EC Conference.
As far as "hidden agendas" go, I've never been shy saying DISA shouldn't
host your listserver, though I've never said so on this forum until now.
I have felt, and continue to feel, that all XML/EDI efforts should be
channeled into, or made conformant with, ebXML. Anything that distracts
from ebXML's efforts should not be on DISA's agenda, perhaps especially
one that doesn't bring in money for DISA!
You may recall that I was one of the most vocal proponents of bringing
all of ASC X12's XML activity into alignment with and support of ebXML;
UN/CEFACT (for which DISA serves as a gateway) had already formally
committed to ebXML. As the alternate X12 LTG (Liaison Task Group)
representative to Rosettanet, I hope to assist in any way that
organization's efforts to align with ebXML, starting with (I hope) the
merger of the RNIF into ebXML's TR&P framework and the latter's adoption
by RosettaNet.
If I can be said to have a "hidden agenda" as a vendor, it can't be too
terribly hidden since I've made a stab at spelling it out at
http://www.xml.org/archives/ebxml/2000/06/0032.html. As a vendor, I'm
better off with one universal and global XML B2B interoperable framework
with which all XML B2B initiatives converge, since that obviously
implies less programming and fuss. And that one framework I'm betting
on is ebXML, one of the few efforts that FORESIGHT has publicly
endorsed. I'm hoping that ebXML is a safe bet, considering that major
players besides FORESIGHT have committed to supporting the eventual
ebXML specifications.
I will not "now proceed to post 10, 20, 40, 80 messages hotly debating"
anything. What few messages I've posted to your XML/EDI Listserver have
been concerned with 1) pushing ebXML, 2) questioning the technical merit
of XML wrappers for EDI, and 3) answering specific questions on X12,
UN/EDIFACT and ISO standards - including yours on Codes for Units of
Measurement (which I trust was helpful to you). As the World's leading
provider of EDI productivity tools, FORESIGHT is always willing to share
its knowledge and experience in the standards realm with anyone and
everybody, in this forum or on EDI-L. To see my previous postings, you
need only refer to the archives of the XML/EDI group at
http://www.mail-archive.com/lists.html under "xmledi-group", or
"xmledi-list" for earlier messages before the listserver was moved to
DISA. You will recall that as a courtesy to my good friend Bruce Peat,
co-moderator of the XML/EDI group, I set up these archives at the Mail
Archive at the beginning of the year in order that nothing valuable be
lost to the ether.
I appreciate many of your individual ideas, efforts and proposals, and
hope to see the worthy ones come to fruition in the ebXML Initiative,
the world's only truly global B2B interoperability framework.
William J. Kammerer
FORESIGHT Corp.
4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy.
Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305
(614) 791-1600
Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/
"Commerce for a New World"
-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 1:02 AM
Subject: MORE: Better Forum for XML/EDI
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
I've created an online community called "XML EDI Experts".
Please join the discussion!
With the message board, you can view discussion folders quickly in the
left-hand column and read up to 20 messages at a time. You can even
attach
files (such as pictures and programs) directly to messages -- just like
e-mail. It's fast, easy, and efficient.
As the Forum "Host," I control the specific features of the Forum. The
other
options include real-time Chat, voice chat, and polls. I can also choose
to
make it public or private.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I'm sorry but I've seen this twaddle all before - SIX YEARS AGO when I
started
and ran the Magic Users Group - we had over 1,000 people on the list
server - and all this opportunist crap was banded around for weeks,
wasting everyones time and generally stirring up nothing worthwhile.
Alternate listservers - come sign up here - there.
Yeah - here we go again - forums and chat rooms and all that nonsense.
So let's STOP THIS right now. I even took a vote of 1,000 people and
had Excel Spreadsheets of rated voting on a raft of proposals. There
result was NO CHANGE! The listserver IS the preferred medium.
The bottom line is this - a listserver based setup is what works - and
this
has been proved by a huge success we have had in developing XML/edi
to this point today. William et al just don't want to admit this is
possible -
there surely must be a mistake here?
There is NOT. The fundamental reason a listserver works and chat rooms
and forums don't is because listservers are:
a) A passive tool that does not require pro-active entry into chatrooms
et
al.
b) People derive immense value from the information they receive and
therefore want to continue to participate.
c) They are a quintessentially democratic process that allows everyone
equal voice - without people thinking there is a 'private' channel
somewhere in a unlisted forum.... et al.
I'm sure William et al will now proceed to post 10, 20, 40, 80 messages
hotly debating all this, and trying to prove why their powder washes
whiter. I'm not buying this nonsense - and I hope noone else is
either. The hidden agenda here - is pretty thinly disguised.
So - let's get back to some normal traffic here. I'm looking
forward to the upcoming meeting in New York at the DevCon2000
show, and hope as many of our members here can make it to the
meeting on Tuesday. Real participation is what counts.
Anyone out there up to running a local group meeting in New York
on a regular basis after the show?
And I for one want to work hard with the excellent staff at DISA to
offer a lot more to the XML/edi Group and really move our
group forward to the next level or three!
See you all there.
Thanks, DW.
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