Hi I'm a lurker and novice to EDI/XML, but well said Maureen.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] on 01/30/2002 09:12:55 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bcc: Mark Matolak/FF/FMS)
Subject: My Perspective
Mike,
While I can appreciate your championing to the cause and asking us
"lurkers" to show ourselves, I feel that asking if RELAX NG as a
perspective W3C XML Schema alternative/replacement is going "out on a limb"
- much further than we are willing to go. For those of us who have worked
with data exchange at an industry level for years, it is very important to
remain focused on technologies that will enable true horizontal, global
participation. While each of these "alternatives" show promising
architecture and development realities, through proof of concept - we
really need to circle back to the cause - a globally accepted and utilized
schema with which to conduct business across all industries for the desired
results. The W3C is the most logical body to hold this universally defined
schema.
The dilemma that we all face is ... which will actually persevere and
become the "standard". I understand that this is a very large task, but it
needs to occur to enable true payload exchange amongst all trading partners
with minimal human intervention at a global level. Speaking from an
industry level, I will expose our true concerns: we need a model that is
supported by X12, DISA, Oasis, UN/Edifact (yes, all) that provides a proof
of concept and overall consensus throughout global e-commerce participants,
to initiate forward strategies. Sure, it is easy to say, but in reality is
what (I perceive) is needed to make this effort successful.
While I do not propose to be an expert in XML and the surrounding
technologies needed to "make it so", my group is minimizing our systems
development, resources and overall data exchange strategy, WAITING for a
true globally adopted XML schema to be established. I am sure many in this
group are in the same boat, and while have been following the xml-edi group
exchange diligently, are in limbo. ebXML shows great promise - and upon
reading Kotok and Webber's recent release, ebXML: The New Global Standard
for Doing Business Over the Internet have considerable support - but what
it amounts to is......are the existing standards bodies ready to step up to
the plate and deem it so? If not, we need to identify any perceived flaws
and work together to resolve them and bring this to fruition. Otherwise,
like what is occurring today, we will all move forward with our own
self-determined Schemas and work independently towards our individual
goals.
There are many opportunities that are available through XML technology that
my industry can realize. BUT, many members in my group are unwilling to
make the leap, due to the many "standards" available today. One last
parting, "out on a limb" comment, is that yes, we are here....just waiting
for the experts to champion enough of a case to the various standards
bodies, to decide on what is the most optimal business Schema that enables
a global data exchange platform, without major objections and move forward
from there.
Bring it on.
Maureen Haney, Chair
ISM Rail Industry Forum, Subcommittee on Information Standards
Mike Rawlins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 01/29/2002 07:34:59 PM
Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: XML/edi Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:
Subject: Re: [relax-ng] New article on RELAX NG vs W3C XML Schema
Dave (and all),
I'm glad I've stirred up a little discussion at least - shows that this
list isn't
completely dead.
Yes, I agree with your points and do pretty much the same with my clients.
But,
that's not the point I was trying to address. What I'm really interested
in is
the mindshare beyond just the folks that might have engaged us to give
technology
recommendations. I was asking the readers of this list, based on their
perceptions of those they work with, whether W3C schema or RELAX NG has the
greatest traction in the market. No one has really answered that yet. The
discussion has seemed to center more around the merits of both, and the
proponents
of RELAX NG seem ahead at this point.
I get the feeling that otherwise folks don't care very much or else this
list has
a very small active readership.
Cheers,
Mike
"david.leland" wrote:
> Hi Mike;
>
> Although I'm in a different application area of the structured
information
> technology, I think the dynamics of the client interaction are much the
same.
> First I get the problem nailed down in an agreed document, then go
through a
> needs analysis, and then make a recommendation on some approaches to
solve the
> problem or implement the a system to give the desired result, within
project
> scope.
>
> I get sorted at the outset the fact that the client is relying on my
knowledge
> of the field, and implementation expertise. I make recommendations based
on
> my knowledge, not on their preconceptions. They're paying me to be the
one
> who knows these things to a greater level than they do, else they would
not
> need me.
>
> Hence, when I make a recommendation that is outside their knowledge, I
make an
> explanation as to the sufficiency and applicability of that
recommendation.
> At such a time I would explain what RELAX NG is and does, and possibly
who
> OASIS-Open is, and what they do.
>
> On the relative positions of W3C and OASIS-Open: W3C is a vendor
consortium,
> OASIS-Open is an open community of structured information professionals,
> developers, implementors, vendors, users and interested parties. Both
are
> standards setting organisations recognised under ISO, and both are very
active
> in developing standards that are in use every day in structured
information
> processing. If your customers have not heard of OASIS-Open, have they
heard
> of DISA? of GCA? of IETF?, which are all standard setting orgs. Might
it
> not be up to you to leave them some new information as well as a new
> deployment?
>
> Regards,
> David Leland
>
> >===== Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] =====
> >Thanks for pointing out the article, David. I *may* read it. But, I
wonder
> >this: Regardless of technical merits and deficiencies, does anyone
outside
> >of a small community of SGML/XML gurus really think that RELAX NG has a
> >snowball's chance of success when considered against the mindshare and
cachet
> >of W3C schema? I really have no opinion on the issue, but try to meet
the
> >needs of my clients. What I hear from my clients and most of my
colleagues
> >is this: We're doing W3C schema because W3C sets the XML standards.
This
> >choice is primarily for business reasons and not technical reasons.
They ask
> >"What's RELAX NG?" Some of them even ask "Who's OASIS?"
> >
> >What does anyone else on this list think? Are your companies or clients
> >aware of RELAX NG, or interested in it?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >David RR Webber - XMLGlobal wrote:
> >
> >> FYI,
> >>
> >> XML.com article. Examplotron is also cool
> >> technology for defining context within EDI
> >> structures...more on that anon!!
> >>
> >> DW.
> >>
> >> -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> >>
> >> From: Eric van der Vlist, INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: , INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> Date: 1/24/2002 1:09 PM
> >>
> >> RE: [relax-ng] New article on RELAX NG vs W3C XML Schema
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope you'll enjoy reading it as much as I have enjoyed writing it!
> >>
> >> RELAX NG is like a breath of fresh air...
> >>
> >> http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/01/23/relaxng.html
> >>
> >> Eric
> >> --
> >> Rendez-vous a Paris pour les Electronic Business Days 2002.
> >>
http://www.edifrance.org/ebd/index.htm
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Eric van der Vlist http://xmlfr.org
http://dyomedea.com
> >> http://xsltunit.org http://4xt.org
http://examplotron.org
> >>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >--
> >Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> >www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
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--
Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
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