Hello Mark,
again, comments inline.
On 2016-08-23 03:21, Mark F wrote:
""" This means if enough people want change (and are there to do the
tasks needed), then it's likely to happen as well. """
I guess what I'm trying to imply is that there are (apparently) enough
people when you count all those using different Xfce implementations.
I was referring to change within the scope of Xubuntu.
In other words, if we want change in Xubuntu, there needs to be enough
people wanting the change and the assignees for the tasks within the
Xubuntu community.
*snip*
I had already been thinking about this. The topic about soliciting
user feedback ("testimonials," almost a religious experience) for the
purpose of advocacy ("marketing") seemed to invite these thoughts.
Does Xubuntu really have to be "pure?" Couldn't it be more things to
more people (especially if a majority are heading to Mint?).
I can't talk for others here, but personally I think that Xubuntu should
decide on one set of defaults and stick with it – if that's what you
mean by "being pure".
This allows the Xubuntu team focus exactly on what they are doing, and
do it well.
Soliciting "testimonials" and having a goal to grow the userbase is an
act of pragmatics (outreach). I'm just asking why not start from the
beginning and ask how those non-Xubuntu users were lost. Accomodate
them (especially if it's just about democracy and catering to the
largest common denominator).
We have no data on the size of the group of people who have decided not
to use Xubuntu – in this case because of the desktop ideology.
Accommodating to that group would be a gamble, and it would mean that we
would likely disappoint a portion of our current users and stopping
doing what we are passionate about.
I can see how this can make sense if your living depends on successful
marketing and the market share. Here, however, it's all still going to
be the same voluntary work even with a larger audience.
I appreciate having the opportunity to air my thoughts about it. I get
the impression that it's not welcome (much, subject-line changes so
it's not related to the original point I was replying to, etc.).
The discussion is still welcome.
The reason I changed the topic was that your first mail was more related
to new ideas on the desktop than gathering the testimonials, which we
were discussing on the original thread. Changing the thread subject also
makes this discussion more findable in the archive.
That's ok. I respect the group's wishes and will let it go. Sometimes
it's good to think about things from a fresh perspective. It's easy to
get locked into an us vs. them mentality, "no need to try to attract
those people... we need more people like us." Hopefully my
contribution might cause some of that to be re-thought.
I think you are misunderstanding the mentality; I've never said we have
shouldn't try to attract those people. What I'm saying is that I don't
think we should go to extremities like completely changing how the
desktop is built to try to attract them.
I should probably also note that I don't consider MintX (and other Xfce
distributions – or other LInux distributions) our "competitors" in the
traditional sense of the word.
If MintX works better for you, then you should use it. If Xubuntu works
better for you, great! If neither is suitable for you out of the box,
then feel free to pick either one (or a third alternative) and modify it
to your liking. Don't like Xfce? The better use another desktop
environment than continue struggling.
That is to say, In my opinion, all Linux users are a win for Xubuntu.
Cheers,
Pasi
--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › http://open.knome.fi/
Leader of Shimmer Project › http://shimmerproject.org/
Xubuntu Website Lead › http://xubuntu.org/
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