Masoga,
I also think that we are just wasting time and energy on lampooning those comrades and what they are doing. Mpho is correct, why can't we focus our energies on our movement, and I think help to correct some mistakes and careless statements that were said on our behalf. Yes, statememts. I know this won't go well with those with power to remove people that they disagree with from this forum. Those comrades are gone and to me they should not be a basis for our discussions here, instead we should be trying to assist each other in contributing to the manifesto submissions as requested by the liberation movement, and take that forward to our branches, other than continue to display our intolerance and unhappiness here. Is it perhaps we are loosing our political content as a result of lack of political education that has engulfed us and are resorting to poor tactics displaye somewhere? I am not trying to be a paragon of correctness, but I think we can do better than that. And I know I have jsut invited even unfair criticism, but eventually we will see that name calling and other unnecessary things are not going to assist our cause. May teh spirit of Tambo, Kotane, Luthuli, Kuzwayo, Sisulu, and others who stood for correct principles help to guide us in this era of intolerance. Just to agree with Domza, i crinje in cold blooded fear after reading this > article. If one were to be critical of the historic behaviour of the > Shikota > while they were still at the driving seat of the ANC, their continous > defence of some kind of an agressive nationalism guised with BEE, the > tabulation of the draft S&T pre-Polokwane and many other policy documents > that had been deviating from a socialist objective; there is clear > evidence > that those hooligans will stop at nothing from achieving that objective. I > think Domza was very observant. Fear the swastika, dressed up with the > national colours. > > Coming back to the graphic interpretations and many marketing jargons on > justifications of certain visual depictions; i should beleive that the > Shikota is either the most short sighted group of elites who are hell bent > in ensuring that they are part of government in 2009 come what may, by > even > ignoring the most simplest things such as checking the name > availabilities. > > Or indeed, they are a bunch of wild parasites ganged up behind a cult of a > paranoid nationalist, chauvanistic, manupulative and yet cunning > visionary, > personified as a darling of democracy. > > A lot is siad by a graphic symbol. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Dominic Tweedie > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Cde Mpho, >> >> >> >> I have to disagree. To criticise graphic art you must be able to >> discriminate on a rational basis. >> >> >> >> Where is yours? I don't see it. All I see is that you want to shut >> discussion down, based on a half-baked idea of marketing, which is not >> politics by the way. >> >> >> >> Let me repeat, the ShikoDA Party has chosen a symbol, the Sun Cross, >> which >> has recently been, and is currently being, used to signify fascism. >> >> >> >> This may be a mistake of theirs, or it may not be a mistake. >> >> >> >> Let me put this to you: I am not the only one to suspect that the >> ShikoDA >> Party is heading for fascism. >> >> >> >> Fascism, among other things, is a cult of the irrational. >> >> >> >> If you don't have a rational basis for critique, then you will be at a >> loss >> when the fascists come out in full force. >> >> >> >> In my opinion we must be able to judge all cultural aspects and not >> allow >> it to pass that cultural things may be arbitrary and irrational. To do >> the >> latter would be to hand the entire cultural field to irrational people, >> chauvinists and fascists. It is a defeatist argument that you are >> making, >> with respect, comrade. >> >> >> >> Yours in struggle, >> >> >> >> Domza. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mpho Tabane >> *Sent:* 16 November 2008 01:45 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* [YCLSA Discussion] Re: COPE and the fascist Sun Cross >> >> >> >> Comrade Dominic >> >> Normally when a graphic designer issues a design of this nature he/she >> also >> submits a thought process statement which is basically the designer's >> interpretation of the design from there the client can decide looking at >> the >> logo and designer's interpretation to see if its in line with his/their >> vision and mission. In this case I fail to understand why are we wasting >> our >> time with newspaper's interpretation of other parties logo's we need to >> teach our society that newspaper interpretation is always subjective >> opinion >> of the writer and having said that I struggler even more who does this >> assist us in keeping focused and concentrate on the current mandate at >> hand. >> >> We honestly need to move away from score-keeping and score taking type >> arguments with COPE,there is no good that will come out of ANC >> scrutinising >> other parties logo's, DA has also released a logo over the weekend but >> us >> scrutinising the COPE logo we just give them more publicity that they >> want. >> >> I rather focus our energy on really strategising to get down to the core >> issues of youth in our country now its time not to talk but listen to >> the >> youth of country. The youth dont want to be told what to do but want to >> be >> listened to so lets find ways to looby young people to now vote for the >> ANC,they have registered so now we need to make sure we have their >> votes. >> >> I just hope this make sense. >> >> On a totally different subject,based on latest address by comrade Malema >> @ >> Kimberly I think its time now that YL *internally and quitely* >> calls Comrade Malema to order we can't afford to be addressing our >> country >> and not having a "united front" approach by our speakers let us deal >> with >> problems internally and behind closed doors NOT in the media part of >> comrade >> Malema's statement there was uncalled for(Get me right I am not saying >> it >> wrong) it was the wrong platform to address tell Comrade premier that >> she >> can leave. Having said this we also need to over solution to the >> 'on-going >> dellema" around comrade Malema's statements/addresses its time that >> Comrade >> Malema gets a team that will do proper and upto date research for his >> addresses on what Young wants and need it will also help if Comrade >> Malema >> is assited with his statement/addresses so that he maximise the time >> given >> productively with no statements that seats bitter in majority of the >> listeners/supporters. Remember the late commander-and -chief O.R was >> continuesly consulting fellow comrades when it come to >> statements/addresses >> he was suppose to make so I strongly suggest Comrade Malema start doing >> that >> or he must be encouraged to look within the ANC for such assitance ANC >> members make up the largest university on its own and he must learn to >> use >> members to the movement advantage.I would also encourage comrade Malema >> on >> this suggested team to have proper media statement released and engage >> with >> the reporters properly,I have noticed that reporters have a tendency to >> publicise only the negative part of comrade Malema's statement but when >> you >> read at the whole press statement there is alot that the comrade said >> that >> is extremely important but the reporters did not seems to want to >> publicise >> that,which brings me to the issue of is the media trying to pull the ANC >> down on purpose and why? >> This is just a suggestion comrades donat shoot it down I maybe wrong but >> one thing I know everytime we make damage control of comrade Malema's >> public >> statements and try to make the youth to understand comrade Malema turns >> around and make another similar damage,he was doing fine for weeks up >> until >> recent statement now all that effort put in by comrade seems like a >> waste. >> >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Dominic Tweedie >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> I'm also not sure that I understand you, comrade. Would you like to >> explain >> a bit more? >> >> >> >> Do you mean, for example, that graphic symbols do not matter and have no >> importance in politics? >> >> >> >> I get a different impression. Nearly all the people's organisations have >> logos, and they regard them, I think, as being invested with meaning. >> >> >> >> Likewise, they have songs and dances and poems and special clothes as >> well >> as prose. Politics is not set aside from the people's general culture, >> nor >> is it confined to prose text. >> >> >> >> The terrains of all of these media are politically contested. >> >> >> >> The editor of The Times (Ray Hartley) says in his blog that the new >> ShikoDA-COPE logo represents the Wheel of Unity that was first used at >> the >> 1955 Congress of the People and which nowadays appears in both the ANC >> and >> the COSATU logos. In my opinion Ray Hartley's argument is false. This >> new >> sign of the ShikoDAs is not our eight-spoked Wheel of Unity, but is the >> Sun >> Cross. >> >> >> >> Yours in struggle, >> >> >> >> Dominic. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Mpho Tabane >> *Sent:* 16 November 2008 12:04 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* [YCLSA Discussion] Re: COPE and the fascist Sun Cross >> >> >> >> I fail to understand the relevance of the information on COPE how does >> this >> help ANC to stay focused? >> >> On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Dominic Tweedie >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> The "COPE" logo, adopted by the Shikota Party and published on 15 >> November >> 2008 in the Johannesburg "Star" newspaper, is as follows: >> >> >> >> [image: COPE.jpg] >> >> >> >> (*Taken from a screen dump of the image on the Star web site; apologies >> for the poor quality*) >> >> >> >> The COPE logo looks a lot like the head of an ordinary screw. But if >> they >> had done a bit more research, the Shikotas would have discovered that >> the >> cross in the circle is a very ancient symbol, older than writing, known >> as >> the Sun Cross. >> >> >> >> Unfortunately for the Shikotas-struggling-to-be-COPE, they are not the >> first to have used the Sun Cross in modern times. The Sun Cross is >> closely >> related to the Swastika, as can be seen from this Viking Sun Cross >> (*from >> Google Images*): >> >> >> >> [image: SunCross.jpg] >> >> >> >> The Sun Cross is currently used by the Swedish fascist Nordic Reich >> Party ( >> *Nordiska Rikspartiet*). >> >> >> >> The Sun Cross was also used as a symbol under the German Nazi regime, to >> stand for "Positive Christianity", a Nazi term referring to a form of >> "Christianity" consistent with Nazism, emphasising Christ as an active >> preacher and organiser who opposed the institutionalised Judaism of his >> day. >> Click here to read about it. >> >> >> >> Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Here is the basic Sun Cross: >> >> >> >> [image: SunCross2.jpg] >> >> *or* >> >> [image: SunCross45.jpg] >> >> >> >> The colours used by COPE are taken from the current national flag of >> South >> Africa. Mixing those colours with symbolism tainted by fascism will not >> go >> down well in this country. In any case, the Shikotas have no right to >> expropriate the colours of the national flag, just as they have no right >> to >> expropriate the name "Congress of the People". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > > -- > VM > > > > ------------------------------------------- South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za ------------------------------------------------------------------ For super low premiums, click here http://home.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. 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