"when do lies become truth? Is it NOT when one intends to deceive?
You see Sibusisiwe Before i tell you that sasco memeber tells first hand info, let me tell you what is a big problem: I read your input three times, i agree with you fully. But the issues is that: The only problem of downgrading other cadres' views and reduce them to nothing in this forum has been caused by Kaizer Mohau - to the extend of "instructing" Dominic to delete those who disagree with his views. now the problem is that most of you agree with his views, [maybe for fear of being deleted from the forum], even if they are factually incorrect. Since Polokwane, he has taken it upon himself to insult those he suspects of being sympathetic to a wrong agenda. Just because he "suspects", does not make him more correct to huddle insults into these cadres, moreover, using this forum. He has adopted this syndrome of being a memeber of other member of the ANC instead of being a memeber of the ANC himself. It appears to me that he feels more member of the ANC than us, thats why you now have these views of Super Ministers in the coming government. Have you ever seen such a thing in the ANC called super-something Just read what he [Kaizer] says here in response to Sasco memeber: "Let Thabo Mbeki's financial backers upgrade your "Friends of democracy" website to enable you to engage us, this is not your platform". "SASCO, as we know in terms of the previous leadership, differed with the broad revolutionary movement in terms of how we should engage the class project - and therefore we beileve that the previous leadership operated as the semi-educated drum majarretes of the 1996 class project". This is not only one thing he said in the past 13 months, as I write here, I have his 17 printed inputs which says nothing about the broader transformation agenda in wich the 52nd National conference has placed a responsibility on all of us -MDM -to engage and ensure its success, rather, a rhetoric assertions about this or that, snakes, dogs, domza delete and so forth. this is one comrade [Kaizer] i know from when he was at Cosatu House, very principled, but completely changed to what i cannot describe in words. Maybe he thinks in him is what Polokwane represents!! With regard to Sasco Member, I was there in that funeral having solicited a lift from Mpumalanga delegation, I can confirm all what Sasco Member is saying in so far as Khaye speech is concerned, very unfortunate indeed. We are all equall memebers of the ANC led alliance, no fear, no apology. Let us support factual debate, not just support because a person is Kaizer Mohau. Funky Maila Mpumalanga Province >>> [email protected] 01/27/09 2:20 PM >>> Com I was tempted not to respond to your email but I think I have every right to respond to issues as you have correctly done so. If you read my submission attentively you will notice that I am not expelling anyone from this forum neither am I agreeing or disagreeing with the assertions of "sasco member" at any point. In fact I said that if indeed events unfolded in the manner and context that the comrade alleges then I may be inclined to agree that the platform was inappropriate to discuss such, but as. My submission is that the cadre should raise his point without launching an attack on individuals. The point of this forum is not to HOWL but rather to convince us of his views...I doubt anyone here holds the monopoly on views of SASCO leadership (previous and otherwise) but you will excuse me if I am not inclined to read endless rhetoric about Clique politics of SASCO from one "SASCO member". Chief if you want to engage on whether the SASCO leadership before Umtata was relevant or not then we can do that, but I for one will not be roped into a discussion on ANY personalities - it is highly unprincipled and divisive. So really com, review peoples submissions before you Giraffe and want to randomly chow for no reason what so ever - the fundamental issue is that this forum will not be abused by people with scores to settle. ________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mduduzi H Vilakazi Sent: 27 January 2009 12:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Is the space really closed for engagements? Dear Cadres! This letter refers to the discussion around comrade Khaye Nkwanyana. I want to refrain from discussing personalities and engage the issues that arise from the discussion. Sibusisiwe, Njabulo, Sandile and the energetic Kaizer you all sound bitter than the faceless sasco member who hides his/her identity due to cowardice. Your responses to the headless sasco member exposes your one size-fit-all approach to this matter. The main issue at hand is whether all previous SASCO leadership collectives since the 6th of September 1991 to the Mthatha Conference did not serve SASCO well. It does not matter whether the toothless sasco member is true or whether Khaye raised such issues but the issue is before us to discuss. What yardstic can we use to determine the performance of previous sasco membership. Will the congress resolutions juxtaposed with the organizational and political reports in the following conference be enough to determine perfomance? Were we in SASCO between 1991 and 2000 to such an extent that we can talk about the behaviour of the leadership then? The other issue that pops in is the question of subscription to the YCL-discussion forum. When I subscribed nothing more than my e-mail address was needed. I just added my willingness to participate in the forum. Cde Kaizer and others who dismisses other subscribers in the forum should clarify us where did they get that mandate. What requirements of subscription is required other than an e-mail address. Their unwillingness to tolerate views that they do not share gives one an understanding that they lack political maturity. The only way they can get their "yes" men and "yes" women is to dismiss those who contest their views. I think, I should strongly lash at SASCO member who raise issues without providing his/her identity. Cde Matimba wrote at the end his name because his address (unlike ours) does not provide the details. Cde Sascomember shall learn from the likes of comrade Matimba. The headless-chicken approach is a political cowardice. It makes me to believe that he/she is the extreme liar without doubt. He/she has first and foremost lied about his identity while giving names of those he/she draws reference from. However, this forum does not belong to Kaizer Mohau, Sibusisiwe Sibiya, Njabulo Nzuza and Sandile Dayi. If they cannot engage issues, they must refrain fro expelling people from this forum, we need all voices. This forum teaches all of us, how will we learn if we are chased away by the likes of Sandile and them. Let the debates continue... This message and any attachments relating to official business of the Mpumalanga Provincial Government (MPG) is proprietary to the MPG and intended for the original addressee only. The message may contain information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender. If you receive this message in error, please notify the original sender immediately and destroy the original message. 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