IS this about who won and lost at Polokwane????? very pathetic!!!!! find a better thing to do.leave David Mimela out of this debate because he has lead and very well for that matter.
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Sobza <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There is a saying that says "nemo iudex in propria causa" ( no one can > judge his cause). David Maimela or SASCO member ( his pseudo name) > cannot sustain his unguided anger when a senior Leader of the PYA like > Khaye Nkwanyana raises issues about SASCO during his time and the > predecessor Leadership ( the class of 2005). He cannot judge his cause > for he cannot be objective on it rather he must allow others who were > observing, no less our PYA leadership, to ventilate their views no > matter pricking like a thorn they may be. > > At one point Maimela had a debate in one of the SABC station where > Zizi Kodwa and Khaye Nkwanyana were also guest representing the PYA > the disrespect, arrogance and sheer cocky as the debate was about the > views of Terror Lekota against Zuma few weeks towards Polokwane > conference cannot be compared with what he is claiming now as a wrong > approach of speaking in public about other PYA component. Those were > not views of SASCO membership as he was defending Lekota. these > comrades were so sure of the victory in Polokwane! > > the best way to go forward, opening a new page can alway be to accept > that they were on the wrong. > > Khaye Nkwanyana is a leader, a leader does not confine himself or > herself in a funeral to mere mourning and dry rembrance of a cadre. a > funeral of a comrade becomes a political funeral! if a comrade from > SASCO is less so expose to these ( may be this was a first funeral for > him of a comrade). I am qualified to speak of this because I was there > in the funeral and know the context within which the Deputy National > Secretary of the YCL came from, and I agree with him. this is a > disadvantage to many comrades as they were not there and are subjected > to the distorted, subjective tantrums of an individual tainted as he > was there, and was introduced from amongst us the congregates. > > Lets make a call here that for this debate to proceed correctly, that > the YCL publish this speech in the bottomline tomorrow so that > everyone can see objectively beyond wild crazy anger. even to > degenerate to a level of calling our leadership strange communists if > you are angry. it tells a lot about maturity of an individual. > > again Nkwanyana cannot be summoned to the discussion forum to respond > to tantrums, anyway, he does not run of platforms as you might be > aware. > > lets call for the original paper to the formal bottomline or SASCO > website then lets engage to expose this cadre. > > Sobza. > On Jan 27, 4:16 pm, sasco member <[email protected]> wrote: > > Comrades > > > > I have followed your debate/viewpoints/responses on the matter I have > raised > > about the deceitful conduct of Mr Nkwanyana the "Young Communist" very > > closely. This is what I have found: > > > > It is strange that whereas I'm accused of playing the man/person not the > > ball; Mr Nkwanyana the "Young Communist" is not accused of the same sin. > > > > It is strange that when I decide to stoop to the level of Mr Nkwanyana > (in > > order to discuss at his level) I get vilified and called names. > > > > It is strange that whereas I choose to remain a "SASCO member" (in order > to > > avoid personalisation of issues) I get vilified. The challenge of > focusing > > on the person and not the issues; is a broader challenge of the > progressive > > movement. It stems out of low levels of ideological work. One good > example > > is the editorial in the African Communist "Post-Polokwane" issue. Another > > would be a situation where Mandela would be blamed for selling out the > > country at a crucial time of negotiations. There are many of these > examples. > > > > I would be the first one to protect and defend Nkwanyana if he had joined > > the movement last month. But his experience an involvement in the > movement > > disqualifies him from insulting people in the manner that he did at the > > funeral. *Uvele wadelela nje*...Thats how best one can describe the > conduct > > of Nkwanyana. And the painful thing is that he knows this; that indeed he > > was reckless. If Nkwanyana wanted to *raise genuinely* those issues or > > rather lies he has many platforms in which to do so but instead he chose > the > > funeral deliberately. > > > > You see, each time a leader of an organisation speaks in public, those > > listening must either embrace the message or be willing to join. In other > > words when a leader speaks in public, the audience must say in their > minds: > > *"This is light, this is leadership, we identify with this person, we can > do > > what he says we must do, we see ourselves in him or we want to be like > him, > > we can even join his organisation"*. But Mr Nkwanyana the Young > > Communist failed to achieve this. He did not understand the task that > comes > > with being in leadership at that point in time, I want to argue. And > these > > are basics of leadership by the way. > > > > One feels justified to punish Mr Nkwanyana and his strange conduct as a > > "Young Communist" through public reprimand which is normally allowed in > the > > movement. In fact to shame him in public would be a lesser punishment by > > standards of the era of struggle for liberation. > > > > In my writting in this forum. I was dirrectly calling upon Mr Nkwanyana > the > > "Young Communist" to replace the lies with the truth. I was giving him a > > chance to respond and I'm still hopefully waiting. I'm so democratic to > an > > extent that I want him to dismiss me as a liar too but before he can say > I > > misrepresent him he must also agree or disagree on whether he truly > believes > > in his lies about the previous leadership collectives of SASCO. So he > must > > prove two things simalteneously. I say this because; in my tongue-lashing > of > > him, I have said; would it it be helpful fo him to tell lies in order to > > prove his hatred for the previous leadership collectives of SASCO? I have > > said in essence, that he need not tell lies (vague lies for that matter) > to > > prove his point he must just like a grounded budding young communist > stick > > to scientific approaches when debating or raising matters. He must > produce > > facts not fiction. Even at this point I want Mr Nkwanyana or those who > > defend his strange conduct to support with clear evidence his > allegations. > > Or is it a conspiracy? > > > > So I would think I'm reasonable enough to come to this forum where there > > could be a free exchange of ideas, and ask Mr Nkwanyana to state his case > so > > that we may all respond whether or not one supports this leadership or > the > > other is neither here nor there. The central issue is whether one can > > produce evidence to back up his claims. Do we as members of SASCO want > > people to rewrite the history of SASCO in a distorted fashion? I think > not. > > It would be shameful for members to keep quiet when lies are told about > > things that we all know. > > > > If I degenerate the discussion I apologise but I found it at this level > as > > well...Mr Nkwanyana started the debate at this level at the funeral. And > ran > > away without response from anyone. > > > > And in anyway in Marxist terms there is nothing wrong with discussing the > > "subjective" as long as we discuss the dialectical link it has with the > > objective. In this case, Mr Nkwanyana who is subject of the discussion, > > tried to convince us about objective factors: the history of SASCO. And > in > > this instance he tried with hude failure; to misrepresent the objective > > truth. His allegations were themself subjective and narrow with an > intention > > to divide I insist! > > > > I want to agree with Herman Vilakazi when he says quite correctly and > > vividly: > > > > *"The main issue at hand is whether all previous SASCO leadership > > collectives since the 6th of September 1991 to the Mthatha Conference did > > not serve SASCO well? It does not matter whether the toothless sasco > member > > is true or whether Khaye raised such issues but the issue is before us to > > discuss. > > > > What yardstic can we use to determine the performance of previous sasco > > membership. Will the congress resolutions juxtaposed with the > organizational > > and political reports in the following conference be enough to determine > > perfomance? Were we in SASCO between 1991 and 2000 to such an extent that > we > > can talk about the behaviour of the leadership then?"* > > So according to Vilakazi with whom I agree, it does not matter what I or > > Nkwanyana says, what matters and what we should focus on is the search > for > > the truth as is. Now that will require a little research about the > history > > of SASCO in the recent past. There is no short cut...In pursuit of truth > > facts cant be compromised. No matter how ugle they may seem. So Mr > Nkwanyana > > the "Young Communist" who should act scientifically at all times, must > just > > like me a non-communist seek to speak about facts not fiction. > > > > Again I agree with Vilakazi, we must answer the question is to wether > there > > is space for engagement and we must answer this question honestly and > > truthfully. When Mr Nkwanyana the "Young Communist" behaves the strange > way > > that he does, does he encourage free engagement? > > > > So at the end of the day we must return to what I see as a profounf > question > > of the day: *when do lies become truth? Is it when one intends to > deceive?* > > ** > > *I await for a proper debate too...I wait for Mr Nkwanyana to give me > facts > > to debate with.* > > ** > > *I remain SASCO Member (Its about the issues not the person)* > > > > * > > * > > > > -- Yours Sincerely Senzo Ncongolo 0743618139 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. 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