Could you please guys ask Selby his new e-mail address because this one is my.
________________________________ From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thami Ncokwane Sent: 23 June 2009 05:01 PM To: Teltrace Cc: Floyd Shibambo; Alex Mohubetswane; Babalwa Ntabeni; Ufhatisana Cooperative; David Mayimela; Dineo Moloele; EMMANUEL MDAWU; Emmanuel Mdawu; Fannie Maseko; Fred Mokoko; Fanie Maseko; Fezile Ngqobe; Godfrey Segoahla; Hamilton; Jacob Khawe; Jacob Khawe; Jabu Zwane; Kenneth Siphiwe Bhoodu; Kgopotso Kwapeng; Buitumelo Kgaladi; Buitumelo Kgaladi; Nkhensani Kubayi; Lebogang Maile; Percy Mthimkhulu; Thulani Malatsi; Buti Manamela; Vuyo Mhlakaza; Jomo Jacobs; Selby Mdluli; Tebogo Makona; [email protected]; Nandipha Zonela; Fezile Ngqobe; Arthur Radebe; M T Ronyuza; Mzukisi Ronyuza; Rassy Ntlemeza (GPEDU); Reginald Marimi; Sabelo Ngwane; Sabelo Ngwane; Russel Mulamula; Shirley M; Prince Leburu; Timoti Duka; Tim Duka; Thabo Kupa; Thabo Kupa; Tsakane Mahlaule; Tsakane Mahlaule; Tshepo Mafolo; Matshidiso Mfikoe; Tshidi Mfikoe; Tankiso Fafuli; Tebogo Ezekiel Modise; Ujhbsrc; Nash Nephawe; Vasco Ndebele; Vlok; Vusi Mzobe; Vuyo (Johannesburg) Mhlakaza; Vuyo Mhlakaza; AJ Arendse; Wyne Mathiso; [email protected]; John Mnisi; Zakes Mnisi; Thamsanqa Ncokwane; [email protected]; Sindy Mdluli; Farai James; Nkosana Mvelase; Kgopotso Kwapeng Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Who owns the succession debate? Hi Phil and cadres, One principle we need to agree on all of us is that a succession debate for any serious organization leading a revolutionary project is critical at all material times. The problem in our own country has been that this is now used as a competitive engagement and arguments as to who started the debate and more importantly, is the question you are asking: What is really behind such a discussion? This brings me to another question. Are those given the responsibility to lead the South African Revolution appreciate basic issues like Organizational discipline, democratic centralism and the effects of debates they either consciously or not they start at the media level as you caution? For me there is no doubt that it is becoming fashionable for leadership to conduct themselves in a manner strange to the teachings of the movement. This is well understood because many would have earned their stripes as leaders under different conditions of struggle when material benefits where not part of the equation. The succession debate for me in the movement is far beyond what people are talking about in relation to the ANC, it should include what is happening in the SACP, YCL, the YL and all progressive movements in the country and it is only an appreciation of this broader challenge that we can entertain a more sober in hopefully a non-subjective debate depending on where one stand in this discourse. In taking this discussion forward I must say it is also important to reflect on one's personal experiences and encourage everyone to do so. I have always considered taking a position of responsibility quite challenging particularly if one would not focus on the task at hand. This with the understanding that leadership is a collective responsibility and it is much easier when there is trust amongst those bestowed with such responsibility. Where has this trust gone to? It is important Phil that you have raised this debate and I think the manner in which we engage with it should be devoid of emotions and subjectivity. I am equally worried about developments in the SACP and YCL on leadership and how we need to treat these issues moving forward. I raise these issues because the movement has been where we grew up and have no any other experience except in the movement and when things go astray, surely we must be worried. Unlike those who then left, we remain inside and will definitely raise our discomforts internally. This debate is important for the LEFT as is for the RIGHT and I think the latter treat it more seriously than we do in the Left - Populism has taken over in the movement and can defend this view to the end!!! Alluta continua!!! Thami. ________________________________ From: Philemon Lukhele <[email protected]> To: Thami Ncokwane <[email protected]>; [email protected] Cc: Floyd Shibambo <[email protected]>; Alex Mohubetswane <[email protected]>; Babalwa Ntabeni <[email protected]>; Ufhatisana Cooperative <[email protected]>; David Mayimela <[email protected]>; Dineo Moloele <[email protected]>; EMMANUEL MDAWU <[email protected]>; Emmanuel Mdawu <[email protected]>; Fannie Maseko <[email protected]>; Fred Mokoko <[email protected]>; Fanie Maseko <[email protected]>; Fezile Ngqobe <[email protected]>; Godfrey Segoahla <[email protected]>; Hamilton <[email protected]>; Jacob Khawe <[email protected]>; Jacob Khawe <[email protected]>; Jabu Zwane <[email protected]>; Kenneth Siphiwe Bhoodu <[email protected]>; Kgopotso Kwapeng <[email protected]>; Buitumelo Kgaladi <[email protected]>; Buitumelo Kgaladi <[email protected]>; Nkhensani Kubayi <[email protected]>; Lebogang Maile <[email protected]>; Percy Mthimkhulu <[email protected]>; Thulani Malatsi <[email protected]>; Buti Manamela <[email protected]>; Vuyo Mhlakaza <[email protected]>; Jomo Jacobs <[email protected]>; Selby Mdluli <[email protected]>; Tebogo Makona <[email protected]>; [email protected]; Nandipha Zonela <[email protected]>; Fezile Ngqobe <[email protected]>; Arthur Radebe <[email protected]>; M T Ronyuza <[email protected]>; Mzukisi Ronyuza <[email protected]>; Rassy Ntlemeza (GPEDU) <[email protected]>; Reginald Marimi <[email protected]>; Sabelo Ngwane <[email protected]>; Sabelo Ngwane <[email protected]>; Russel Mulamula <[email protected]>; Shirley M <[email protected]>; Prince Leburu <[email protected]>; Timoti Duka <[email protected]>; Tim Duka <[email protected]>; Thabo Kupa <[email protected]>; Thabo Kupa <[email protected]>; Tsakane Mahlaule <[email protected]>; Tsakane Mahlaule <[email protected]>; Tshepo Mafolo <[email protected]>; Matshidiso Mfikoe <[email protected]>; Tshidi Mfikoe <[email protected]>; Tankiso Fafuli <[email protected]>; Tebogo Ezekiel Modise <[email protected]>; Ujhbsrc <[email protected]>; Nash Nephawe <[email protected]>; Vasco Ndebele <[email protected]>; Vlok <[email protected]>; Vusi Mzobe <[email protected]>; Vuyo (Johannesburg) Mhlakaza <[email protected]>; Vuyo Mhlakaza <[email protected]>; AJ Arendse <[email protected]>; Wyne Mathiso <litye_mathiso/[email protected]>; [email protected]; John Mnisi <[email protected]>; Zakes Mnisi <[email protected]>; Thamsanqa Ncokwane <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:26:55 AM Subject: Who owns the succession debate? Dear Cdes I have realized that as the left we might be once again caught up in yet another succession debate; this time its seems more of when should it start and who should start it? Interestingly, COSATU and Tokyo Sexwale for whatever reasons has become proponents for what has be termed " THE SECOND TERM DISCOURSE". We who might be distance from the corridors of power might not be privy to the real essence of why the debate should start now, who should start and what should be the political essence of such a debate. Whether we agree or not, the mere introduction of this subject matter will feed well in the media sensational agenda and as society we shall be compelled to respond in various different ways. What the left view on this matter? My view is that lets debate it frankly and avoid being led by the media on this discourse. I have personally observed and unfriendly interaction on this subject matter between COSATU and the YL because of how COSATU introduces the matter. Is there a point for discussion on this matter, if there is, what are the principles? Phile From: Thami Ncokwane [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:42 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Floyd Shibambo; Alex Mohubetswane; Babalwa Ntabeni; Ufhatisana Cooperative; David Mayimela; Dineo Moloele; EMMANUEL MDAWU; Emmanuel Mdawu; Fannie Maseko; Fred Mokoko; Fanie Maseko; Fezile Ngqobe; Godfrey Segoahla; Hamilton; Philemon Lukhele; Jacob Khawe; Jacob Khawe; Jabu Zwane; Kenneth Siphiwe Bhoodu; Kgopotso Kwapeng; Buitumelo Kgaladi; Buitumelo Kgaladi; Nkhensani Kubayi; Lebogang Maile; Percy Mthimkhulu; Thulani Malatsi; Buti Manamela; Vuyo Mhlakaza; Jomo Jacobs; Selby Mdluli; Tebogo Makona; [email protected]; Nandipha Zonela; Fezile Ngqobe; Arthur Radebe; M T Ronyuza; Mzukisi Ronyuza; Rassy Ntlemeza (GPEDU); Reginald Marimi; Sabelo Ngwane; Sabelo Ngwane; Russel Mulamula; Shirley M; Prince Leburu; Timoti Duka; Tim Duka; Thabo Kupa; Thabo Kupa; Tsakane Mahlaule; Tsakane Mahlaule; Tshepo Mafolo; Matshidiso Mfikoe; Tshidi Mfikoe; Tankiso Fafuli; Tebogo Ezekiel Modise; Ujhbsrc; Nash Nephawe; Vasco Ndebele; Vlok; Vusi Mzobe; Vuyo (Johannesburg) Mhlakaza; Vuyo Mhlakaza; Wyne Mathiso; [email protected]; John Mnisi; Zakes Mnisi; Thamsanqa Ncokwane Subject: Invitation to join a Book Club Hi Cadres, I thought I must share this with your goodselves. We have for some time been talking amongst comrades and friends of the ANC about a need to have a book "review" club or whatever the name you think is appropriate, the gist of the matter is that we need a platform for young people to read and reflect on their understanding on what is under review. Concurrent with the issue of a book club, I would have also raised a need to have a Youth Development Forum in Soweto [in can be in any township, I stay in Soweto and that the reason) and to that effect, we also circulated a draft document written by myself, Felix and Makase (unfortunately now late). Whilst all of you were still wondering on the correctness of this Project, in Pimville we proceeded and now have Pimville Klipspruit Youth Development Forum (PKYDF), a Youth Centre (constructed through our IDP submission) and will be launching our Book Club in July - all this goes with a lot of lessons in the process and we are ready to share this with yourselves as activists who have a background in communities that needs your services and most of the time are no where to be found because you are "too busy" - on a lighter note. The issue of book collection and reading is a matter of discipline. I personally since the last time I raised this issue (2 years ago) with a number of comrades, can confirm that I have collected 31 books through exclusive books it is a compromise a one bottle of whiskey or any other drink in a month. I have not completed reading all of them I must confess but can tell you that they are very helpful as my reference material on matters that from time to time I am requested to make reflections on as an activist, more importantly as a veteran student and youth activist [for sure no one contest this view] - the sooner we start at a more coordinated and larger scale the better. Lets agree that common sense in the movement has cost us dearly and this initiative will in one way or the other help us contribute in turning the tide. We have a list of 10 books we will start with and have lined up people who will be leading presentations on dates to be agreed upon soon and will welcome any additional recommended books. I have volunteered to present in the first book review sessions in July - A book by Moky Makura on the Best African Entrepreneurs (not its exact title) I will be giving more details in my next communique that will only go to those who will have indicated their interest on the project. Bye for now as there is work to be done - Amandla!!! Ncokwane Thami. 076 035 8999. Please Note: This email and its contents are subject to our email legal notice which can be viewed at http://www.sars.gov.za/Email_Disclaimer.pdf --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. 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