[YCLSA Discussion] Re: Anti-poverty protests in SA ?

[Dominic Tweedie]

What could the revolutionary tasks be? Fine to ask that question if you accept the premise which is that without qualitatively new tasks, agency is impossible, and descent into Economism is practically inevitable. Therefore new tasks, new wants and needs, are a necessity. New needs are a necessity. I hope you see what I mean. It's Marxism, anyway. Compare what you say about the terrible effects of unemployment and the desirability of full employment, with Karl Marx in 1865 already calling for the abolition of the wages system! Obviously there is a contradiction there. The street committees would be significant if we could see any actually-existing street committees. So far I have not even heard of any. The best candidate that I can offer for a new revolutionary task is to subvert the communication system. In the 1960s there was an "underground" which turned out not to be one. Or maybe it was an underground but gradually got co-opted. The best thing about it was the idea, which one can still appreciate, of communications without restriction. This is the opposite of the concept of the "public broadcaster" that is being argued over like a bone at the moment in South Africa. I would like to see that argument about the "public broadcaster" rendered obsolete and redundant by people acting directly. The attraction of the broadcast media is only that it can be centralised and uniformed. Compare the full output of DSTV for a week with one single issue of the old "International Times" and ask: Which one contains more imagination? Of course one scruffy edition of International Times (at two and sixpence or whatever it was) is worth the whole 57 channels of DSTV at R500 per month. This is a situation that is ripe for subversion in my opinion. There is an article about poetry today in one of the papers. It has a photo of Willie Kgositsile and poet Rampolokeng. These two geezers have been bottleneckng the poetry franchise for at least 15 years. How the hell does that happen? They are not that great. They are just copping the grants and doing the photoshoots. See, they say, South Africa has poets! After so many years, where are the other poets? These two are blighters, not poets. New wants and needs are by definition cultural, of course. See where I'm going with this? Dom\za, VC. James Tweedie wrote: What could these new revolutionary tasks be? It strikes me that unemployment and informal employment are major causes of poverty in South Africa, along with generally low wages. I would guess that this stems from colonial underdevelopment, in some regions more than others. Am I wrong? Unemployment doesn't just impoverish you financially, it degrades you in other ways, for instance driving people into criminality. Can the state do anything towards creating a condition of full employment, at decent rates of pay? Can true socialised industries be created within capitalism, or, as has been argued here, would 'state capitalism' be a step forward? What is happening about the creation of street committees? Are they developing any of the character of soviets? Similar structures (communal councils) are being developed in Venezuela, but we get precious little information about them. I'm afraid that they may not be developing at all. James 2009/7/31 Dominic Tweedie <hyperc...@telkomsa.net>: That's very clear and it's relevant. NHI and free education are reforms worth having, even if a lot of the work is sub-contracted. Let's make sure to score both in the term of this government. I don't think such reforms amount to Economism, though. What I was personally after in this discussion was to make the point that the current apparent "wave of militancy", though it could "build class consciousness and organisation", as you say, may actually not do so. The reason I think it may not do so is that the degree of class consciousness is at some sort of peak, already. It needs an injection of something extra. The working class needs new revolutionary tasks. The major industrial divisions are well organised and are well capable of uniting behind a wage claim. That we can see. At 2 million organised in COSATU-affiliated unions, in a country of nearly 50 million, there is a prima facie case for quantitative growth. That's possible. But that was not my concern. I am concerned to see how the class is going to be "seized" with new qualitative tasks. No doubt the COSATU and SACP Congresses, in September and December respectively, will try to do this. Both should be given maximum critical attention from this point of view. If the working class cannot be motivated towards new, revolutionary goals then it will tend to fall back towards pure Economism, resting on its laurels, and it will threaten to develop political organs to suit. Domza! VC! James Tweedie wrote: I think it may have already been said in this discussion that economist trade union activity can build class conciousness and organisation - if it is successful. If it fails, for instance the trade union leads everyone out on a strike which they lose - then it has the opposite effect. I personally have had good and bad experiences of trade unions (and not due to 'bureaucracy'), so I don't hold them up as the Holy Grail of struggle. Where I'm from in Britain we have state-funded free universal healthcare (the National Health Service) and compulsory free universal education from age 5 to 16, with voluntary free education to 18 or 19 (in preparation for university). I am a great believer in the principles behind both, I worked in the NHS for years. There are, however, a great many problems in how they are run, stemming from government policy. Recently attempts have been made to privatise these services piecemeal. What this actually amounts to is sub-contracting public service work to private companies, who have the guarantee that the taxpayer will keep them in profit. It is just charity to businessmen, not true privatisation. Some people say that these services are evidence of a past 'socialism' in Britain under previous Labour Party governments. But of course Britain has never been socialist. These services were founded partly because the Labour movement fought for them, but, like the post office or the privatisation of the railways and coal mines following the Second World War, because they were necessary to the capitalist economy but could not be run at a profit. In other words, the social democracy that the British trade unions have been fighting for since at least 1907 is just another variation of the capitalist state. How much do South African capitalists need a well-educated workforce? How much investment do they put into training their employees that they cannot afford to lose a large number of them to illness? Are not the majority of people employed in low-skilled, low-paid jobs, with an army of unemployed waiting to take their places if they fall ill? James 2009/7/31 Thabang Ngcozela <tngcoz...@hotmail.com>: to end and a revolutionary organisation Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:05:36 +0200 Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Re: Anti-poverty protests in SA ? From: d.vanwy...@gmail.com To: lose...@gmail.com CC: yclsa-eom-forum@googlegroups.com; moatlhudi.mogw...@gmail.com There is no foreign hand behind the protests. South Africa along with Brazil and Botswana is one of the most unequal societies in the world. The majority of the people are working class, poor and black and they are tired of the neo-liberal economic mess the country is in because they are the ones expected to accept poverty, degradation and exploitation while the new non-racial ruling class continues to live the high life. Neo liberal capitalism is unable to resolve the pressing questions facing South Africa, be it poverty, unemployment, disease, housing etc. What South Africa lacks is good working class leadership. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Loselo Segwe<lose...@gmail.com> wrote: Cdes My firm believe and informed by my exposure on the ground is that we are now or have entered a terrain of class struggle which was preceded by National liberation struggle. Untipoverty campaigns are signs of uneasiness from the people. This being motivated by the fact that whilst people are told to wait for service delivery and job creation - which is supposed to empower and liberate people from poverty and incomeless conditions, they are at the same time almost watching helplessly whilst others are getting more richer and enjoying opulance life styles just across the street or even worse next door. Without sounding judgemental, our local sphere of government is also letting all of us down. Affirmative Action to me meant empowering our own people with the neccessary skills, education and exposure over a period of time in other for us to better serve our people, affirm them and support them to realise their life aspirations. Now what is happening some municipalities is just taking affirmative action beyond its worth. Cadres with no education, skills and training and in most instances with no support, are deployed in councils - sometime to serve certain cabals or to block others more suitable for the position (who might not neccessarily agree with us). Our revolution is under siege as from municipality to municipality we hear of strikes, demonstrations and picketing. These are signs that the route taken is not sustainable, we need a total review and instill certain revolutionary morals and ethics in order to move forward. The Cuban revolution has been sustained by a high level of discipline, morality and good revolutionary ethics. Just the other day I happen to chat to one of the Cuban Doctors deployed in our country, what struck me was his clear understanding of why he was in South Africa, why for instance he chose his career, why Cuban government took policy decisions it took and why he must do his best to serve and serve with honour. So lets all work towards instilling a sense of pride, dignity and honour in those deployed to serve. Lets eradicate the greed that is now characterising some of our deployed cadres, the self-serving attitudes, the arrogance and laziness as well as entitlement attitudes. Lets do it for our movement cdes!!!! On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Sikhumbuzo Thomo <sikhumbuzo.th...@gmail.com> wrote: RC Well what l can say is that we are have a series of class struggles during this bargaining period nothing out of the ordinary. Comrade ST On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Rajesh Roy <rajeshcher...@yahoo.co.in> wrote: Hello comrades, i live in India, we hear about the so-called antipoverty protests going on now in SA.. is there a foreign hand behind these protests? it seems like there is some well-planned conspiracy behind these protests.. Rajesh Cherian. ________________________________ Yahoo! recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8 -- Loselo Segwe Mobile: +27766383723 --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to yclsa-eom-forum@googlegroups.com or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email yclsa-eom-forum-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): yclsa-eom-forum-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---