Cde's Floyd & Dominic Your discussion is no longer adding much if any value in my opinion, it has just degenerated to being petty and personal. Let us please go back into discussing the fundamental facts about nationalisation or socialisation of mines and or any other key economic driving industries, if I may add. Regards, Tumelo G.
From: Dominic Tweedie To: [email protected] Sent: Wed Dec 02 06:17:31 SAST 2009 Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Some ideological questions on the Nationalisation of Mines Dear Cde Floyd, There is a well-known quote, attributed to John Maynard Keynes, that often serves well at times like these. Somebody had confronted Keynes with an accusation of <span class="apple-style-span">having changed his position on monetary policy during the<span class="apple-converted-space"> <span class="apple-style-span">Great Depression<span style="color: black;">. Keynes allegedly replied<span class="apple-style-span">: “<span style="" lang="EN-ZA">When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” <span style="" lang="EN-ZA"> You, on the other hand, Cde Floyd, jump at an imaginary accusation of “inconsistency” as if stung by a bee. The point about the Keynes quote is that we enter dialogue with the intention of changing our minds, and not of holding fast to our old ideas at all costs. In other words, we intend to learn. Those who would build a cast-iron pulpit for themselves, and fire verbal artillery from there in all directions at the approach of any challenger, are not really in the spirit of dialogue, as Paulo Freire, or G W F Hegel, conceived of it. Socialisation, among other things, would mean that all of us presently alive would constantly be in such an open-minded dialogue with each other and with all of those (ancestors) who have gone before. The electronic means we now have at our disposal make such a cultivation of the “logos” easier and more available than it was when books were expensive and only fully available in large libraries. For example, all of us with a connection can now exhaustively search at least 4,170 surviving documents written by V I Lenin, for any term, and have a result in a short time, whereas a few years ago, no-one in the world had such a capability. The valuable dialogists are those who find themselves able to subsume, with acknowledgement, or to concretise, that which has gone before, and who certainly do not try to over-ride it as if it had never existed. There is little that has exceptionally to do with you in all of this, Cde Floyd, but if you want to make an example of yourself, you might like ponder whether people would place a higher value upon your words about socialisation than they would upon the words of V I Lenin on that subject. Concerning the Freedom Charter, and the three-year campaign of which the 1955 Congress of the People was the main event, the world has yet to hear what is your case for stressing another event in the campaign over the Kliptown one. <span style=""> In my own view of it, <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum/browse_thread/thread/275a78c864e1645f"; title="CU on CoP">posted on this forum on 21 September 2009, and <a href="http://domza.blogspot.com/2009/09/congress-call.html"; title="CU blog on CoP">also here, the ANC’s 1956 deliberations on the campaign do not feature, except to mention that 1956 was the year when the Treason Trial, a consequence of the charter campaign, started. Personally, I am not yet sure where you think all this fits into the current discussion about socialisation. Yours in the unity and struggle of opposites, VC Nyiko Floyd Shivambu wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:[email protected]" type="cite">I understand and accept that every cannot be about me Cde Dominic. I was not really responding to what you specifically said..... I was generally speaking about some of the questions raised in the forum, wherein comrades expressed a concern about a possible shift. And the question about the Freedom Charter? Is that clarified? -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum";>http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. 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