Cde Morgan, Protocol accepted.
You quite right Cde we don’t have to dwell on debating personalities; debating rule learned in High School isn’t interesting that you happened to break the same rule. The logical consistency, factual accuracy and some degree of emotional appeal including discussing personalities if needs be, with the purpose of redirecting the lost comrades are crucial in political debates. Chief you cannot separate personality from the issue under discussion it cannot be possible. Obviously this is for another day, year for now I think we may close the discussion .To all comrades enjoy your Christmas see you in the New Year-------------------Out to my birth place no 3G coverage unfortunately. Thobela, On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 12:13 PM, morgan phaahla <[email protected]>wrote: > Comrade Howard, > > I wonder if that is all you can say after VC had introduced several issues > for discussion in an attempt to step up a robust and constructive engagement > in this forum, thus to help organise ideas around these issues. Your task to > articulate clearly the subject matter and satisfy the requirements of > reasoning in terms of what is to be done under the circumstances, has failed > you by stooping too low to debate personalities. > > As a real communist, one was hoping you will act like Moses Kotane and > choose to provide counsel on complex issues, including any tendency towards > disruption and factionalism threatening the character and the future > existence of our Alliance. > > Back to the issue you raised "Buti Manamela on the wrong lane," which I > believe you chose to single out cde Buti Manamela to cast doubt on his > credibility as national secretary by implying that he is part of a cabal > made of "his loyal lieutenants in the provincial office of YCL Limpopo." I > am also not sure what you know but those are very serious allegations which > cannot be taken lightly. It appears that you know something we do not know. > > Comrades have spoken many times about the booing and all of that as > unfortunate state of affairs. I don't know why you use this forum to target > and isolate individuals. You're arguing as if there is any factual basis for > your allegations. If you have reasonable cause to believe that cde Buti is > part of a particular faction please follow internal procedures for this > issue to be dealt with justly and appropriately as a matter of urgency. > > We just don't have time for naughty and petty issues raised with a mission > to discredit our leaders and divide our movement. It's time to deal with > unruly elements within our midst, even if it means expelling them for > bringing the name of the organisation into disrepute. No ill-discipline and > unbecoming conduct will be tolerated and allowed to erode the rich internal > workings of the YCL and broader movement. > > To this end, I challenge you to make written representation of the matter > for the National Committee to institute disciplinary action, if there is any > basis for your allegations. I trust you will find this in order. > > Comradely, > Morgan Phaahla > Ekurhuleni > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - > Joe Slovo > > --- On *Tue, 12/22/09, howard matjomane <[email protected]>*wrote: > > > From: howard matjomane <[email protected]> > > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Buti Manamela on the wrong lane. > To: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:09 AM > > Thanks very much for informative and constructive contributions you > brought to this YCL discussion forum. Comrades the past weeks our senior > alliance comrades were booed at special SACP conference in polokwane and > this was well organized by few communist and without doubt the Secretary > General Cde Buti Manamela and his loyal lieutenants in the provincial office > of YCL Limpopo. It was indeed very unfortunate and I believe that if > you have got issues with the individuals as a true communist you must > address it in manner that will prioritized unity of the alliance structures. > As a communist myself I felt that my image being tarnished by certain > sections of opportunist communist who cannot even project the suitable > conditions simply because they have got the micro phone near them and they > can just as they like. > These are with no doubt comrades who cannot understand the difficulties > that we encounter in building the structures of YCL at grass roots level. > You can’t build effective and efficient structures as well as communist > cadres > at news café of the fundamental concern is political education across all > YCL branches which never happen-Building strong structures that are not > depending on ANCYL-Campaign to educate young people in particular the > high school students on the struggle for socialism. > If you have to come to a real truth, All YCL members were recruited from > strong branches of the ANCYL –ANCYL sub regions and Regions have worked hard > to ensure the existence of YCL branches under difficult conditions. As such > for Comrade Buti Manamela to attack the ANCYL leader basically means he is > attacking his own members who elected him and that comrade is truth. The > impression given is that YCL leaders at National level are not in touch with > their branches and have no understanding of the life of their own branches. > I’m not saying Buti must not defend the leadership of SACP but booing > senior youth leader is definitely unacceptable and completely misguided. > Comrades when you go in battle you must have trained and tested > commanders and competent soldiers but Buti and his loyal lieutenants’ decided > to do other way round. But they must remember that it was solely on the > bases of not having full understanding of the general membership and on > depending too much on theory without practice that Comrade Josiah Tshangana > Gumede was toppled in 1930. > "Everywhere the oppressed peoples were being inspired by that ideal of > emancipation which found expression in the Russian revolution. There was > still an illusion that the people would obtain justice from the British > Government. But the plain truth was that they had again and again failed in > their petitions to the British Government, and that their supplications to > the Governor-General had been futile. 'We now have to rely on our own > strength . . . We have to demand our equal economic, social and political > rights. That cannot be expressed more clearly than to demand a South African > Native Republic, with equal rights for all, but free from all foreign and > local domination'". > It was this important speech that destroys his chances of getting > re-elected at 1930 conference solely because he was a leader far ahead of > his time, but perhaps too far ahead. > “To ignore the real situation and to play about with imaginary forces, > concepts and ideals is to invite failure. The art of revolutionary > leadership consists in providing leadership to the masses and not just to > its most advanced elements; it consists of setting a pace which accords with > objective conditions and the real possibilities at hand “ > This should serve as major lesson to all of us that is important to first > understand how our basic units are build and who constitute that, and who > are the architect of this structures. It is not going to be surprise move > when overwhelming majority of YCL removes Buti Manamela from his position > soon. > Comrade communists the time has come to deal with over ambitious and > opportunists leaders in the YCL to deal with comrades who took significant > decision alongside their girlfriends in up market pubs to influence SACP to > go alone in local government elections without consulting its branches. > Thobela. > > Howard > > <http://us.mc502.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > > > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to > this message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery > options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected]. > You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to > put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to > this address (repeat): [email protected] . > -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
