Greeting Cde Tom, Thanks for the discussion below. The lesson that we must learn is that we must not polarise the debate into a black or white thing, black messiah or white messiah.
On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:24:25 +0200 "Nndwamato Mutshidza" <[email protected]> wrote: > Cde Unathi, we have never tend to display intolerance > towards nobody. We > have called on cdes, commissars, intellectuals and the > likes to input on > the draft position paper that we released. Among the > issues we are > saying is that cdes must stop shooting the proposal > without providing > alternatives. We have presented 3 models that could be > followed or could > be combined to produce a hybrid model and that what we > are calling on > Shabangu and Cronin to engage us on. The very same > modalities you want > us to debate is what we calling you to input on. > Therefore if for > example we say Socialism in our lifetime and a member of > the party stand > up and say not when he/she is still alive being a > deployee what is > suppose to be the call of the Party? to applaud, I doubt > and the same is > what we did to those who have turned themselves in > Capitals Chorus and > praise singers of Capitalism. We will and we are saying > crush anything > that seeks to discredit without inputing unto what we > have put in the > table. There is this new fear of assuming that if we > crush Capitalism > now, the world will fall unto us and we will parish a > fallacy that do > not even belongs to the Party of Slovo or Kotane or Hani. > If > Nationalisation cannot be supported by the Vanguard Party > of the working > class, then what is that those who claim to be the > custodian of our > Revolution doing in our Party? This the question we are > asking about the > commitment of Cronin to classless society? if any > programme that can > advance or move our society quicker to the promise land > cannot be > supported and always it is assume to be our position an > the Party, while > its a one man view, which is far fetched from the > grassroots. If we are > to conduct a study among Party members around the notion > of those we are > confronting on this path you will be shocked. > > we are calling on all Communist to engage the document, > input on it to > enrich it to reflect the Nationalisation that will take > us to > Socialisation of Mines not the Cronin foul play syndrome. > > Unfortunately cde Unathi, the only way we can engage with > all people is > by putting out your proposal and allow people to engage > with it , which > we have done.We might be growing impatient with dissent > views because > this programme is very close to us sons and daughters of > the working > class, which constitute an important class in the society > and the ANC. > Please if you want us to develop a paper with financial > model or costing > it can be done but not for engagement because figures do > scares people. > We will cost each model and look unto which one FIT into > our > Developmental State path. > > Lets engage and stop to have sufferance of natural hate > for ANCYL and > its Leaders over the preferred path to Classless Society. > > Cde Tom Mutshidza > > >>> "unathi unathi" <[email protected]> 2010/02/08 > 12:36 PM >>> > Greetings Morgan and other fellow comrades, > > I am dissapointed about the level of intolerance > displayed > by the ANCYL leadership towards a debate that they > started. > They cannot shape what people think but can debate the > merits of their case if they are sure about their story. > Nationalisation would always be a controversial proposal, > but it must be backed up by detailed plans that indicate > funding and control structures. So my advise to the ANCYL > is to stop shouting insults and engage with comrades > responsibly. > > On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:21:16 -0800 (PST) > morgan phaahla <[email protected]> wrote: > > Revolutionary greetings, > >  > > Communist cadres, what is going on in the Alliance? > >  > > The raging debate on the nationalisation of the mines > is > > not only divisive but trivialised to the level of > making > > a mockery of the rules and protocols of engagement > within > > the Alliance. > >  > > I've noted also that every time a senior member of the > > ANC or minister is reflecting a different perspective > > against a view held by an Alliance structure, media > > quickly rush to the structure to solicit a comment with > > intention to use it to cast aspersions on the unity of > > the ANC. Whilst the structure is entitled to express a > > different view, including a platform in which reasons > > would be advanced for and against such a view. > >  > > It's against this background that the ANC Youth League > > (ANCYL) have an obligation to give meaning to its > policy > > proposal on the nationalisation of the mines without > > being abstract so that all structures are able to draw > > parallels from the ANC policies and the programme of > the > > government. However, media is manipulating the > situation > > for its own ends when it should be waiting for the > ANCYL > > leadership to unveil its paper with graphical details > of > > the probity and viability of the proposed > nationalisation > > plan. > >  > > I therefore appeal to the media and other reasonable > > South Africans to allow the ANCYL to present its case. > > The constructive engagement remains the only mode to > > robustly debate this subject, without anyone neither > > exerting pressure nor blackmailing certain individuals. > > It's part and parcel of the ANC culture to debate > > contentious issues and resolve them by discussing the > > pros and cons of the subject matter, regardless of who > > raises it. > >  > > The engagement must continue to take place to clarify > > government policy and the debate on the nationalisation > > of the mines in order to concretely address > > contradictions of class, race, gender and redesign the > > apartheid spatial patterns in society. > >  > > On the same note, I call upon cadres to desist from > > deviant behaviour of insulting leaders of our movement > in > > public or using derogatory names to label deployees > when > > differing with them politically. Let's rather agree to > > disagree and expose every policy proposal to scrutiny > in > > order to give practical expression to it. > >  > > Remain, > > Morgan Phaahla > > Ekurhuleni > > > > > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes > > your ideology." - Joe Slovo > > > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, DomzaNet > <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > From: DomzaNet <[email protected]> > > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] [Communist University] > > Umsebenzi Online, Volume 9, No. 3, 3 February 2010 > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 2:03 PM > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > Umsebenzi Online, Volume 9, No. 3, 3 February 2010 > > > > > > In this Issue: > > > > > > Let's debate, but let's debate in a way that unifies > our > > movement and strengthens practical programmes of action > > > > > > > > > > Red Alert > > > > > > Let's debate, but let's debate in a way that unifies > our > > movement and strengthens practical programmes of action > > > > > > The SACP Political Bureau held its first meeting for > 2010 > > last Friday. The meeting took place at Liliesleaf in > > Rivonia, the historic site from which the secret High > > Command of Umkhonto We Sizwe operated until its arrest > at > > this venue in 1963. It was this location that gave the > > name "Rivonia" to the famous trial that ensued. The > > property is now being turned into a museum and > conference > > centre with the support of, amongst others, UNESCO. > > > > > > Liliesleaf has a particular symbolic significance for > the > > SACP - not only was it the site at which legendary > names > > in our Party's history operated, but it was the > > clandestine SACP that purchased the former > small-holding > > in the early 1960s. Unfortunately for the SACP, not > only > > are we now too late to put in a restitution claim, but > it > > seems that the clandestine SACP-run trust that > originally > > bought the property sold it in the 1960s to a private > > buyer! > > > > > > Assessing the SACP's December 2009 Special National > > Congress > > > > > > At last Friday's PB, we used the occasion to evaluate, > > amongst others things, the Party's Special National > > Congress in Polokwane in December last year. We noted > > that the Congress was characterised by a very high > degree > > of inner-Party unity. The divisions within the Party, > > which some of the media had been predicting and, in > some > > cases, promoting, completely failed to materialise. > > > > > > However, as we all know, this didn't prevent much of > the > > media from still ignoring the substance of what > happened > > at our Congress. Instead there was an inordinate focus > on > > one minor event in which two individuals, who had been > > involved in persistent and derogatory, personalised > > attacks on SACP leadership, were briefly booed by some > of > > our delegates. It was an unfortunate but unplanned > > episode that would have passed almost un-remarked but > for > > the deliberate melodrama that soon followed. A few > > individuals stormed onto the stage, and in the full > glare > > of rolling TV cameras, SACP chairperson, cde Gwede > > Mantashe, was accosted and subjected to loud abuse - > much > > to the delight of head-line seeking journalists. > > > > > > This melodrama was one thing, more unfortunate were > some > > of the leaks and analyses that followed. For a few days > > afterwards, there was even an implausible attempt to > > suggest that this episode marked a widening rift in the > > relationship between the SACP on the one hand, and the > > entire ANC on the other! > > > > > > All of this was the symptom of something else. One of > the > > key achievements of our Congress was precisely to > single > > out in debates and resolutions the central threat to > the > > unity and programme of our Alliance. In particular, our > > Congress singled out what we called "Kebble-ism" - > > namely, a dangerous axis between unscrupulous business > > people (black and white) on the one hand, and a > bullying, > > chauvinistic populist tendency in parts of our movement > > on the other. Behind the headline stories of high-life > > parties and the flaunting of ill-gained wealth, lies > the > > sordid reality of manipulative sponsorships, wheeling > and > > dealing, organisational factionalism, arm-twisting and > > the general subversion of our democratic order. > > > > > > At the PB meeting, comrades all noted very widespread > > endorsement from outside of our ranks for our raising > of > > these concerns. What has especially been appreciated > has > > been the SACP's evident readiness to stand up against > > this dangerous tendency. We have received many messages > > and other indications of support for our stand. These > > have come from within the ANC, from the workers' > > movement, from the youth sector and, indeed, from many > > others who do not share our ideological views, but who > > are appalled by corruption, bullying and chauvinism. > > > > > > The PB resolved that the SACP would continue to work to > > strengthen our alliance on the basis of our shared > > programme of action and priorities. We are heartened by > > the recent ANC NEC lekgotla's strong endorsement of > > exactly the same position. > > > > > > The nationalisation debate - how to conduct it…and how > > NOT to conduct it > > > > > > Programmatically, the SACP is committed to struggling > for > > a socialist South Africa. It's our "core business", if > > you like. It's the reason for our existence. The > > socialist future we aspire to is certainly an ideal, > > however we are not interested in consuming endless > hours > > in speculatively fashioning an elaborate blue-print for > > some distant future. This is the kind of futile > exercise > > Marx and Engels always dismissed as merely "utopian". > Our > > socialism is fundamentally about waging a struggle, > here > > and now, with and in defence of the workers and poor. > > > > > > But how do we wage that struggle? First of all, it > isn't > > and cannot be some secret plot. We are openly > socialist, > > and (at least since February 2, 1990) we have been > > legally socialist as well. Our socialist struggle is > not > > a conspiracy (you can't possibly build socialism out of > a > > conspiracy). It is certainly NOT about "capturing" the > > ANC by infiltrating communists onto ANC electoral > lists! > > If communists enjoy popular support and endorsement > from > > within ANC structures that's great. But they serve in > ANC > > positions as ANC members. We want to have capable, > honest > > and hard-working ANC cadres as ANC leaders - some will > be > > communists, many will not be. Rather a capable > > non-communist ANC comrade in a leadership position, we > > say, than a less capable ANC member who happens to be a > > communist. > > > > > > At the heart of the socialism to which we are committed > > lies the struggle to build capacity for and momentum > > towards increasing democratic social control over the > key > > resources of our society. In this regard, we are > > certainly not opposed, in principle, to state ownership > > ("nationalisation") as one possible means towards > > advancing social control over key resources. But there > > are several important qualifications that are required. > > > > > > In the first place, state ownership of key sectors of > the > > economy is, in itself, not necessarily a progressive > > still less anti-capitalist move - the apartheid regime > > and various fascist states had extensive state > ownership. > > Key financial institutions in the UK and US currently > are > > also now effectively "nationalised". In all of these > > cases, state ownership has not been about rolling back > > the logic of private profits for a few in the interests > > of meeting the social needs of the majority - but > rather > > bureaucratic interventions to rescue capitalism in > > crisis. The recent bank buy-outs in some advanced > > capitalist countries have been correctly described by > > mainstream economists as "socialism for capitalists", > > while the majority are burdened with a huge national > debt > > to pay for the bail-outs. > > > > > > In the second place, as the many recent scandals in our > > own parastatals have underlined, public sector > ownership, > > on its own, is no guarantee that this public property > > will not be plundered by senior management for their > own > > private accumulation purposes. Primitive accumulation > > rent-seeking is one of the major plagues currently > > afflicting our democracy and it lies at the root of > many > > sectarian battles and disputes within our broader > > movement. It is absolutely essential that we wage an > > intensified battle against it. It would be the height > of > > hypocrisy, by the way, to be calling for > > "nationalisation" on the one hand, while being > intimately > > involved in the private plundering of public resources > on > > the other. > > > > > > In advancing our perspective on socialisation, > including > > progressive nationalisation, the SACP fully intends to > > locate this advocacy, and any other discussion on > > nationalisation/socialisation, within the context of > our > > shared alliance strategic priorities - jobs and > > sustainable livelihoods; health-care; education; rural > > development; and fighting crime and corruption. We must > > all guard against the opportunistic appropriation of > > "nationalisation", treating it as a stand-alone issue > and > > using it as a rhetorical badge of "radicalism". Any > > progressive call for nationalisation needs be a > coherent > > and do-able part of an overall democratic programme. > > > > > > As the SACP, a party of socialism within an ANC-led > > alliance, we seek to encourage a growing appreciation, > > from among the broad mass of our people, including the > > broad ranks of the ANC, of the impossibility of > achieving > > fundamental progress on our shared priorities without > > rolling back the dominance of capital. As far as the > SACP > > is concerned, we want to make this a non-sectarian and > > practical discussion, rather than simply an > "ideological" > > assertion. Grand-standing doesn't help. Threatening > > comrades that you won't vote for them in future > elective > > conference unless they support your position is > infantile > > and unhelpful. > > > > > > For instance, the discussion around the transformation > of > > the mining sector needs to be located within the > broader > > challenge of putting our country onto a new > job-creating > > growth path. It needs to be about the role of a > > transforming mining sector (and indeed a wider > > minerals-energy-finance complex) within government's > > emerging Industrial Policy Action Plan (IPAP). How we > > transform the mining sector should be located within > such > > a broader discussion and not be based on one-third of a > > de-contextualised clause in the Freedom Charter. > > > > > > But the question of socialisation extends far beyond > just > > a narrowly-defined economic domain. It relates to all > of > > the other key strategic priorities of our ANC-led > > alliance. The transformation of health-care, for > > instance, requires (as the ANC is coming, in effect, to > > increasingly recognize and affirm) precisely the > > enhancement of socialisation in the sector > (strengthening > > the public health sector; rolling back the power of the > > pharmaceutical industry; the roll-out of a national > > health insurance, etc.). The ANC and government might > not > > use the word "socialisation" (and that doesn't matter) > - > > but this is exactly the kind of converging appreciation > > for which we, as the SACP, are struggling. > > > > > > The same can be said for the turn-around in education - > > with the important growing realisation that > > transformation (or in our terminology "socialisation") > of > > the sector doesn't just mean an improving > > "state-controlled" sector (that's critical), but also, > in > > this case, the effective mobilisation of key social > > forces (teachers, parents, learners, communities) > around > > a unifying transformational agenda. > > > > > > Likewise, fighting corruption, another shared strategic > > priority, critically relates to bringing the state and > > especially the SOEs under a social/developmental > mandate > > - as opposed to using them as sources for primitive > > accumulation. The current crisis around governance, > > golden hand-shakes, exorbitant tariffs, and failures to > > actually effectively deliver in many SOEs provides us > > with an opportunity to advance (not the cause of > > privatisation, as the DA will do) but rather their > > effective and increasing socialisation - i.e. > > subordination to the logic of meeting social needs not > > private profits. > > > > > > As we have said in the recent past, the SACP welcomes > the > > ANCYL's attempt to raise questions around the > > transformation of the mining sector, including possible > > nationalisation. We are the last ones to be scandalised > > or disapproving of such a discussion. We are concerned, > > however, that unless this important debate is raised in > a > > constructive way, and for principled reasons, it runs > the > > risk of dividing the ANC and our broader movement, and > of > > discrediting the very real need for major structural > > transformation in our society. > > > > > > Asikhulume!! > > > > > > > > -- > > Posted By DomzaNet to Communist University on 2/03/2010 > > 09:03:00 PM > > -- > > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > > Please POST your comments to > > [email protected] or reply to this > > message. > > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for > > different delivery options, pages, files and > membership. > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email > > [email protected] . You > don't > > have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't > > have to put anything in the message part. 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