Can you comrade or anyone please post this discussion paper? Thanks. Mzukisi
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nndwamato Mutshidza Sent: 08 February 2010 01:24 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] [Communist University] Umsebenzi Online, Volume 9, No. 3, 3 February 2010 Cde Unathi, we have never tend to display intolerance towards nobody. We have called on cdes, commissars, intellectuals and the likes to input on the draft position paper that we released. Among the issues we are saying is that cdes must stop shooting the proposal without providing alternatives. We have presented 3 models that could be followed or could be combined to produce a hybrid model and that what we are calling on Shabangu and Cronin to engage us on. The very same modalities you want us to debate is what we calling you to input on. Therefore if for example we say Socialism in our lifetime and a member of the party stand up and say not when he/she is still alive being a deployee what is suppose to be the call of the Party? to applaud, I doubt and the same is what we did to those who have turned themselves in Capitals Chorus and praise singers of Capitalism. We will and we are saying crush anything that seeks to discredit without inputing unto what we have put in the table. There is this new fear of assuming that if we crush Capitalism now, the world will fall unto us and we will parish a fallacy that do not even belongs to the Party of Slovo or Kotane or Hani. If Nationalisation cannot be supported by the Vanguard Party of the working class, then what is that those who claim to be the custodian of our Revolution doing in our Party? This the question we are asking about the commitment of Cronin to classless society? if any programme that can advance or move our society quicker to the promise land cannot be supported and always it is assume to be our position an the Party, while its a one man view, which is far fetched from the grassroots. If we are to conduct a study among Party members around the notion of those we are confronting on this path you will be shocked. we are calling on all Communist to engage the document, input on it to enrich it to reflect the Nationalisation that will take us to Socialisation of Mines not the Cronin foul play syndrome. Unfortunately cde Unathi, the only way we can engage with all people is by putting out your proposal and allow people to engage with it , which we have done.We might be growing impatient with dissent views because this programme is very close to us sons and daughters of the working class, which constitute an important class in the society and the ANC. Please if you want us to develop a paper with financial model or costing it can be done but not for engagement because figures do scares people. We will cost each model and look unto which one FIT into our Developmental State path. Lets engage and stop to have sufferance of natural hate for ANCYL and its Leaders over the preferred path to Classless Society. Cde Tom Mutshidza >>> "unathi unathi" <[email protected]> 2010/02/08 12:36 PM >>> Greetings Morgan and other fellow comrades, I am dissapointed about the level of intolerance displayed by the ANCYL leadership towards a debate that they started. They cannot shape what people think but can debate the merits of their case if they are sure about their story. Nationalisation would always be a controversial proposal, but it must be backed up by detailed plans that indicate funding and control structures. So my advise to the ANCYL is to stop shouting insults and engage with comrades responsibly. On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:21:16 -0800 (PST) morgan phaahla <[email protected]> wrote: > Revolutionary greetings, >  > Communist cadres, what is going on in the Alliance? >  > The raging debate on the nationalisation of the mines is > not only divisive but trivialised to the level of making > a mockery of the rules and protocols of engagement within > the Alliance. >  > I've noted also that every time a senior member of the > ANC or minister is reflecting a different perspective > against a view held by an Alliance structure, media > quickly rush to the structure to solicit a comment with > intention to use it to cast aspersions on the unity of > the ANC. Whilst the structure is entitled to express a > different view, including a platform in which reasons > would be advanced for and against such a view. >  > It's against this background that the ANC Youth League > (ANCYL) have an obligation to give meaning to its policy > proposal on the nationalisation of the mines without > being abstract so that all structures are able to draw > parallels from the ANC policies and the programme of the > government. However, media is manipulating the situation > for its own ends when it should be waiting for the ANCYL > leadership to unveil its paper with graphical details of > the probity and viability of the proposed nationalisation > plan. >  > I therefore appeal to the media and other reasonable > South Africans to allow the ANCYL to present its case. > The constructive engagement remains the only mode to > robustly debate this subject, without anyone neither > exerting pressure nor blackmailing certain individuals. > It's part and parcel of the ANC culture to debate > contentious issues and resolve them by discussing the > pros and cons of the subject matter, regardless of who > raises it. >  > The engagement must continue to take place to clarify > government policy and the debate on the nationalisation > of the mines in order to concretely address > contradictions of class, race, gender and redesign the > apartheid spatial patterns in society. >  > On the same note, I call upon cadres to desist from > deviant behaviour of insulting leaders of our movement in > public or using derogatory names to label deployees when > differing with them politically. Let's rather agree to > disagree and expose every policy proposal to scrutiny in > order to give practical expression to it. >  > Remain, > Morgan Phaahla > Ekurhuleni > > > "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes > your ideology." - Joe Slovo > > --- On Wed, 2/3/10, DomzaNet <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > From: DomzaNet <[email protected]> > Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] [Communist University] > Umsebenzi Online, Volume 9, No. 3, 3 February 2010 > To: [email protected] > Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 2:03 PM > > > > >   > > Umsebenzi Online, Volume 9, No. 3, 3 February 2010 > > > In this Issue: > > > Let's debate, but let's debate in a way that unifies our > movement and strengthens practical programmes of action > > > > > Red Alert > > > Let's debate, but let's debate in a way that unifies our > movement and strengthens practical programmes of action > > > The SACP Political Bureau held its first meeting for 2010 > last Friday. The meeting took place at Liliesleaf in > Rivonia, the historic site from which the secret High > Command of Umkhonto We Sizwe operated until its arrest at > this venue in 1963. It was this location that gave the > name "Rivonia" to the famous trial that ensued. The > property is now being turned into a museum and conference > centre with the support of, amongst others, UNESCO. > > > Liliesleaf has a particular symbolic significance for the > SACP - not only was it the site at which legendary names > in our Party's history operated, but it was the > clandestine SACP that purchased the former small-holding > in the early 1960s. Unfortunately for the SACP, not only > are we now too late to put in a restitution claim, but it > seems that the clandestine SACP-run trust that originally > bought the property sold it in the 1960s to a private > buyer! > > > Assessing the SACP's December 2009 Special National > Congress > > > At last Friday's PB, we used the occasion to evaluate, > amongst others things, the Party's Special National > Congress in Polokwane in December last year. We noted > that the Congress was characterised by a very high degree > of inner-Party unity. The divisions within the Party, > which some of the media had been predicting and, in some > cases, promoting, completely failed to materialise. > > > However, as we all know, this didn't prevent much of the > media from still ignoring the substance of what happened > at our Congress. Instead there was an inordinate focus on > one minor event in which two individuals, who had been > involved in persistent and derogatory, personalised > attacks on SACP leadership, were briefly booed by some of > our delegates. It was an unfortunate but unplanned > episode that would have passed almost un-remarked but for > the deliberate melodrama that soon followed. A few > individuals stormed onto the stage, and in the full glare > of rolling TV cameras, SACP chairperson, cde Gwede > Mantashe, was accosted and subjected to loud abuse - much > to the delight of head-line seeking journalists. > > > This melodrama was one thing, more unfortunate were some > of the leaks and analyses that followed. For a few days > afterwards, there was even an implausible attempt to > suggest that this episode marked a widening rift in the > relationship between the SACP on the one hand, and the > entire ANC on the other! > > > All of this was the symptom of something else. One of the > key achievements of our Congress was precisely to single > out in debates and resolutions the central threat to the > unity and programme of our Alliance. In particular, our > Congress singled out what we called "Kebble-ism" - > namely, a dangerous axis between unscrupulous business > people (black and white) on the one hand, and a bullying, > chauvinistic populist tendency in parts of our movement > on the other. Behind the headline stories of high-life > parties and the flaunting of ill-gained wealth, lies the > sordid reality of manipulative sponsorships, wheeling and > dealing, organisational factionalism, arm-twisting and > the general subversion of our democratic order. > > > At the PB meeting, comrades all noted very widespread > endorsement from outside of our ranks for our raising of > these concerns. What has especially been appreciated has > been the SACP's evident readiness to stand up against > this dangerous tendency. We have received many messages > and other indications of support for our stand. These > have come from within the ANC, from the workers' > movement, from the youth sector and, indeed, from many > others who do not share our ideological views, but who > are appalled by corruption, bullying and chauvinism. > > > The PB resolved that the SACP would continue to work to > strengthen our alliance on the basis of our shared > programme of action and priorities. We are heartened by > the recent ANC NEC lekgotla's strong endorsement of > exactly the same position. > > > The nationalisation debate - how to conduct itÂ...and how > NOT to conduct it > > > Programmatically, the SACP is committed to struggling for > a socialist South Africa. It's our "core business", if > you like. It's the reason for our existence. The > socialist future we aspire to is certainly an ideal, > however we are not interested in consuming endless hours > in speculatively fashioning an elaborate blue-print for > some distant future. This is the kind of futile exercise > Marx and Engels always dismissed as merely "utopian". Our > socialism is fundamentally about waging a struggle, here > and now, with and in defence of the workers and poor. > > > But how do we wage that struggle? First of all, it isn't > and cannot be some secret plot. We are openly socialist, > and (at least since February 2, 1990) we have been > legally socialist as well. Our socialist struggle is not > a conspiracy (you can't possibly build socialism out of a > conspiracy). It is certainly NOT about "capturing" the > ANC by infiltrating communists onto ANC electoral lists! > If communists enjoy popular support and endorsement from > within ANC structures that's great. But they serve in ANC > positions as ANC members. We want to have capable, honest > and hard-working ANC cadres as ANC leaders - some will be > communists, many will not be. Rather a capable > non-communist ANC comrade in a leadership position, we > say, than a less capable ANC member who happens to be a > communist. > > > At the heart of the socialism to which we are committed > lies the struggle to build capacity for and momentum > towards increasing democratic social control over the key > resources of our society. In this regard, we are > certainly not opposed, in principle, to state ownership > ("nationalisation") as one possible means towards > advancing social control over key resources. But there > are several important qualifications that are required. > > > In the first place, state ownership of key sectors of the > economy is, in itself, not necessarily a progressive > still less anti-capitalist move - the apartheid regime > and various fascist states had extensive state ownership. > Key financial institutions in the UK and US currently are > also now effectively "nationalised". In all of these > cases, state ownership has not been about rolling back > the logic of private profits for a few in the interests > of meeting the social needs of the majority - but rather > bureaucratic interventions to rescue capitalism in > crisis. The recent bank buy-outs in some advanced > capitalist countries have been correctly described by > mainstream economists as "socialism for capitalists", > while the majority are burdened with a huge national debt > to pay for the bail-outs. > > > In the second place, as the many recent scandals in our > own parastatals have underlined, public sector ownership, > on its own, is no guarantee that this public property > will not be plundered by senior management for their own > private accumulation purposes. Primitive accumulation > rent-seeking is one of the major plagues currently > afflicting our democracy and it lies at the root of many > sectarian battles and disputes within our broader > movement. It is absolutely essential that we wage an > intensified battle against it. It would be the height of > hypocrisy, by the way, to be calling for > "nationalisation" on the one hand, while being intimately > involved in the private plundering of public resources on > the other. > > > In advancing our perspective on socialisation, including > progressive nationalisation, the SACP fully intends to > locate this advocacy, and any other discussion on > nationalisation/socialisation, within the context of our > shared alliance strategic priorities - jobs and > sustainable livelihoods; health-care; education; rural > development; and fighting crime and corruption. We must > all guard against the opportunistic appropriation of > "nationalisation", treating it as a stand-alone issue and > using it as a rhetorical badge of "radicalism". Any > progressive call for nationalisation needs be a coherent > and do-able part of an overall democratic programme. > > > As the SACP, a party of socialism within an ANC-led > alliance, we seek to encourage a growing appreciation, > from among the broad mass of our people, including the > broad ranks of the ANC, of the impossibility of achieving > fundamental progress on our shared priorities without > rolling back the dominance of capital. As far as the SACP > is concerned, we want to make this a non-sectarian and > practical discussion, rather than simply an "ideological" > assertion. Grand-standing doesn't help. Threatening > comrades that you won't vote for them in future elective > conference unless they support your position is infantile > and unhelpful. > > > For instance, the discussion around the transformation of > the mining sector needs to be located within the broader > challenge of putting our country onto a new job-creating > growth path. It needs to be about the role of a > transforming mining sector (and indeed a wider > minerals-energy-finance complex) within government's > emerging Industrial Policy Action Plan (IPAP). How we > transform the mining sector should be located within such > a broader discussion and not be based on one-third of a > de-contextualised clause in the Freedom Charter. > > > But the question of socialisation extends far beyond just > a narrowly-defined economic domain. It relates to all of > the other key strategic priorities of our ANC-led > alliance. The transformation of health-care, for > instance, requires (as the ANC is coming, in effect, to > increasingly recognize and affirm) precisely the > enhancement of socialisation in the sector (strengthening > the public health sector; rolling back the power of the > pharmaceutical industry; the roll-out of a national > health insurance, etc.). The ANC and government might not > use the word "socialisation" (and that doesn't matter) - > but this is exactly the kind of converging appreciation > for which we, as the SACP, are struggling. > > > The same can be said for the turn-around in education - > with the important growing realisation that > transformation (or in our terminology "socialisation") of > the sector doesn't just mean an improving > "state-controlled" sector (that's critical), but also, in > this case, the effective mobilisation of key social > forces (teachers, parents, learners, communities) around > a unifying transformational agenda. > > > Likewise, fighting corruption, another shared strategic > priority, critically relates to bringing the state and > especially the SOEs under a social/developmental mandate > - as opposed to using them as sources for primitive > accumulation. The current crisis around governance, > golden hand-shakes, exorbitant tariffs, and failures to > actually effectively deliver in many SOEs provides us > with an opportunity to advance (not the cause of > privatisation, as the DA will do) but rather their > effective and increasing socialisation - i.e. > subordination to the logic of meeting social needs not > private profits. > > > As we have said in the recent past, the SACP welcomes the > ANCYL's attempt to raise questions around the > transformation of the mining sector, including possible > nationalisation. We are the last ones to be scandalised > or disapproving of such a discussion. We are concerned, > however, that unless this important debate is raised in a > constructive way, and for principled reasons, it runs the > risk of dividing the ANC and our broader movement, and of > discrediting the very real need for major structural > transformation in our society. > > > Asikhulume!! > > > > -- > Posted By DomzaNet to Communist University on 2/03/2010 > 09:03:00 PM > -- > You are subscribed. This footer can help you. > Please POST your comments to > [email protected] or reply to this > message. > You can visit the group WEB SITE at > http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for > different delivery options, pages, files and membership. > To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email > [email protected] . You don't > have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't > have to put anything in the message part. All you have to > do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): > [email protected] . > > > > > > -- > You are subscribed. 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