Greetings Comrades, The discussions are really good today. There is nothing wrong with contesting any position in the ANC but the campaign that has been led to unseat Gwede is wrong comrades. The comrade has just been given the task in Polokwane, now his posistion is threatened. I think it will lead to a fight for survival and service delivery will be affected in the ANC. This will lead to the ''wonership'' of branches and the contest will be ugly.
As much as the SACP and COSATU had called for the retention of the top six, there was some though into that. This was for the sake of stability. Well OR once said ''danger threatenes'' and these actions threaten On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 10:36:16 +0200 "Fani, V : Division Bookkeeping" <[email protected]> wrote: > As a branch member of the youth league, the draft paper > on nationalization of mines is welcome so that branch > member and ordinary members of youth or alliance member > must read to provide input on the principle position of > the YL. > > We can reduce the paper to single entity in order to > advance a capitalist approach, Comrade Mbete is quite > right in saying that the time will come to discuss the > paper on nationalization of mines, the forth coming > General council will debate the paper at length in to be > taken to the national conference in Bloemfontein to be > adopted as policy. > The paper will be an inclusive that's why we called upon > in an every cadre of YCL,ANCYL to debate the paper at > length. > > We should deal with grasp or substance of the paper > prepared by the leadership in general of our movement. > > To achieve this we need comrades or young cadres who > began to reach political maturity in the midst of > aboGeneral. > > I remain Vuyani Fani, the struggle continues. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Nndwamato Mutshidza > Sent: 09 February 2010 09:18 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] Fwd: ANC YL Media > RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > General, > > It seems its you who is suffering from what you assume > our leaders are > suffering from. You naive inferences of assuming that > only academia > should decide the path of revolution is > anti-revolutionary in a South > African context. Maybe we should ask you, who are at the > centre of > knowledge production? Is the West (Imperialist), what do > they teach our > kids (Profit maximisation) or maybe the beuty and blossom > of capitalism. > Does the school or the academia who have made you who you > are not > encourage you to be the best no matter what other kids > are going > through. > > Just by providing this apology, it expose you to > sufferance of > ideological slavery you are suffering. You keep on > wanting to reduce us > to discuss issue that do not matters. The economy General > is what is at > the core of what path we take and if you are a Communist > which I really > doubt unless we are after numbers as oppose to quality > you might > understand the point of view we are raising here. > > I care less as to who becomes the SG in 2012 be it Mbaks > or the > retaining of Gwede, what matters to me is the programme > that we should > be pursuing as the Liberation Movement turns 100 years > old. If you think > our aggressiveness is not helping assist us to see the > alternative and > not insulting us. By the way we have the very same > academic credentials > you think we do not and you need to understand that the > process to > develop a position paper culminate from an ongoing > research and only > those that understand the process will provide empirical > evidence of the > case we are presenting. Therefore your assumptions that > we the ANCYL are > a bunch on dumb or non-academia reminds me of the debate > we have some > times ago after the launch of the Native Club as what > constitute a > Native and what make one an Intellectual (Is it not > subjective this > debate of labelling each other). > > You are correct this forum was never establish to replace > our basic > unit (Cells, branches) of the vanguard but a platform to > share views and > assist each other in ensuring that we sharpen our > theoretical tools of > analysis. But its cdes like you General that reduces this > forum to a > gossip column and we will refuse your indoctrination in > this regards. > > General, assist us here "Why do Communist fear so much > the > Nationalisation Programme as proposed by the ANCYL and > think that what > the 12th Congress of SACP proposed is fine?" Why target > SASOL and leave > other drivers of our Economy. SASOl whether Nationalised > or not will > still had to procure Petroleum product on off-shore > markets on a > Dollarised currency and that risk will have to be the tax > payers risk > and when we want to do the same of Mining, cdes have some > jitters, Why? > Who owns the Mines? Are the Banks not in charge through > some financier > arrangement with BEE benefactor who produce and repay > debts to Banks and > as such the nationalisation of Mines triggers the > nationalisation of > Banks and other Commanding Heights of Economy. > > Please stop insulting us and deal with the issue we put > in the table, > engage our Nationalisation paper and enrich it. This > whats we expect > from Marxist/ Lennist/ Kotanist. > > Lets talk > >>> sipho shandu <[email protected]> 2010/02/08 03:56 PM > >>> > Dear cadres, > > Let us not be reactionaries but let us revolutionary in > all we write > and > utter. Floyd is Malema's "bedbug" and is out of line. > Whatever juluis > utters, floyd will reiterate with full support. > > I joined the ANC because it was the party of integrity > and I made it > my > home. A party of peace and respect. Here came these > lumpens who want to > turn > things around with a whole lot of disrespect and > hooliganism. > > Julius is the presidente of the ANCYL and floyd is just > the league's > "blabbermouth" and both must attend to the matters which > matter the > most to > youth. I do not undesrtand why Julius is discussing very > complex > matters of > high academia when he knows that he does not have that > caliber to > discuss > and deliberate at such a high mental state. > > This press statement is nonsense as it continues to > devide us. Malema > and > his garden boys must catch a wake up call. > > I will not be in this forum for the wrong reasons. > > We have had this halabaloo where we witnessed a showdown > in polokwane > and it > devided our party. I feel and honestly believe that we > should refrain > from > being power mongers otherwise it will kill our party. > > Should anyone have a problem with my comment, please keep > it to > yourself. > Let us come to this forum sober minded and ready to > debate critical > issues > of national importance rather than post nonsensical > opinions which > stand no > ground. > > Let me crocodile for now... > > Cadre General Shonalanga > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Dominic Tweedie > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Nyiko Floyd Shivambu <[email protected]> > > Date: 4 February 2010 12:25 > > Subject: ANC YL Media RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, > JEREMY CRONIN > AND > > SUSAN SHABANGU ON THE NATIONALISATION OF MINES: > > To: anc-yl-media <[email protected]>, > ancmedia < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > *RESPONSE TO NICKY OPPENHEIMER, JEREMY CRONIN AND SUSAN > SHABANGU ON > THE > > NATIONALISATION OF MINES:* > > > > * * > > > > 04 February 2010 > > > > > > > > The African National Congress Youth League (ANC YL) has > noted the > reaction > > of Nicky Oppenheimer, De Beers Chairperson to the > misleading > statements of > > Minister of Minerals, Susan Shabangu that Mines will > not be > nationalised in > > the Minister's lifetime. We have also noted attempts to > divert the > debate on > > Nationalisation by Jeremy Cronin, who once again, used > the platform > of the > > South African Communist Party to express his views. We > decided to > respond to > > Nicky, Susan and Jeremy together because their wish to > retain the > status quo > > in terms of property relations is the same, the only > slight > difference is > > that the other one uses sophisticated English to > mislead our ally, > the SACP > > on its response to Nationalisation of Mines. > > > > > > > > *NICKY OPENHEIMER, SUSAN SHABANGU AND DE BEERS: * > > > > * * > > > > It is totally dishonest and criminal for Nicky > Oppenheimer to say he > agrees > > with the misleading statements of Susan Shabangu that > Mines will not > be > > nationalised in her lifetime. By saying Mines will not > be > nationalised in > > her lifetime, Susan Shabangu Is referring to her > lifetime as a > Minister of > > Minerals, because we doubt if she will be a Minister > for that a very > long > > time. De Beers is a Mining partnership with the > governments of > Botswana, > > Namibia and Canada, yet seems to be refusing that the > people of South > Africa > > benefit from mining of diamond. De Beers is an > inconsistent and > immoral, > > inhuman corporation, whose development and growth was > at the expense > of many > > Africans' innocent lives. De Beers super-exploited > African > labourers through > > forced cheap labour and for many years sponsored the > conquest of the > African > > majority by the white minorities. De Beers operated in > South Africa > during > > apartheid and basically sponsored the murderous, > destructive and > racist > > actions of the colonial/apartheid repressive regime. If > there is ever > any > > corporation that has to be remorseful and understand > that the people > of > > South Africa should share in the country's wealth, it > is De Beers. > > > > > > > > De Beers should not be misled by Susan Shabangu, but > should begin to > design > > models of engagement with the State in the same manner > they did in > Botswana, > > Namibia and Canada. In South Africa, De Beers should > begin to adjust > to > > giving away 60% of its ownership and control of Mining, > because that > is what > > is going to happen. De Beers should be leading other > Mining > corporations in > > making them understand that Mining can happen even when > the State has > a > > greater stake in the mining corporations, and stop > listening to wrong > advice > > by the Minister of Minerals. > > > > > > > > We do not expect Nicky Oppenheimer to support > Nationalisation because > he is > > protecting his ill-gotten wealth, currently worth > billions of Rands, > which > > he inherited from his war mongering forefathers. Whilst > not openly > > supporting Nationalisation, Patrice Motsepe has said in > a > constructive > > manner that if it happens in the interest of South > Africa, he would > support > > nationalisation. But a greedy, unethical capitalist, > who stays in > London, > > does not care about the interest of South Africa. If > Nicky > Oppenheimer > > thinks that he has a hold on the ANC through Minister > Susan Shabangu, > then > > he is misled, because Susan Shabangu is not the ANC and > does not > understand > > the ANC. > > > > > > > > *JEREMY CRONIN AND THE SACP* > > > > * * > > > > The ANC Youth League wants to place it on record that > Jeremy Cronin > has on > > several occasions been given the opportunity to > contribute into the > > discussion document on Nationalisation of Mines. He was > specifically > asked > > to write a chapter in the document on how Nationalised > Mines should > alter > > South Africa's accumulation and growth path in order to > address > the > > Minerals-energy-finance complex. As always, the only > thing he could > do was > > make a false commitment that he will contribute, but > chose not to. > In > > November 2009, Jeremy Cronin committed to make input > and we are > still > > waiting for his input. He instead chose to use the > platform of the > Communist > > Party to try and divert focus from the ANC Youth > League's call for > > Nationalisation and label it opportunistic and weak, > primarily > because of a > > section which he was requested to make contributions > on. > > > > > > > > The ANC Youth League is acutely aware that what are > presented as > views of > > the SACP Politburo are personal, reactionary views of > Jeremy Cronin > who > > forever succeeds in misleading the Communist Party. The > SACP's > support for > > Nationalisation is couched with lots of doubts and > aspersions > intended as > > questioning the legitimacy of the ANC Youth League to > raise the > debate. The > > Communist Party should intensely look within itself and > ask the > relevant > > question of why is it that all the personal beliefs of > one Jeremy > Cronin > > without failure become the views of the Communist > Party. The ANC YL > is aware > > that the labels of "Kebble-ism", "anti-communist" > > > > > > > > Jeremy Cronin is again re-committing the same mistake > he committed > when he > > said our understanding of beneficiation is bling. > Jeremy Cronin does > not > > read the official document of the ANC YL, but rushes to > respond even > on > > issues that have already been addressed. This > specifically relates to > the > > conceptual foundation of the document which > unequivocally says that > > "nationalisation does not amount to bailing out of > indebted > capitalists". > > The entire question of South Africa's State Owned > Enterprises is > addressed > > in the discussion document, but as always, Jeremy > Cronin ignores it > and > > instead chooses to raise false alarms on the whole > debate. > > > > > > > > Why a Communist cadre in the form of Jeremy Cronin > refuses to > > constructively input into the Nationalisation of Mines > perspective > even when > > humbly requested to is worrying. But as they say, blood > is thicker > than > > water. The ANC YL is neither grand-standing, nor > threatening anyone. > > Inspired by the 1944 founding generation of the ANC, we > will not > support any > > leader of the ANC who is opposed to our political > programme. It would > be > > foolhardy for the Youth League to support leaders who > are opposed to > our > > programme. > > > > > > > > We will continue to engage with the Communist Party and > COSATU and > develop > > a proper programme moving forward. Nationalisation of > Mines will > happen, and > > for Nicky Oppenheimer and Jeremy Cronin, we appreciate > your > opposition > > because it makes us more determined. > > > > > > > > *Issued by the African National Congress Youth League * > > > > Contact Floyd Shivambu, ANC YL Spokesperson > > > > 0828199474 > > > > > > -- > > You are subscribed. 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