Thank you cde VC for re-introducing the debate on the grounds that the "sub judice" rule is problematic and outdated, and therefore it cannot be a premise not to discuss the matter. Granted! However, "media enjoy home-ground advantage" here and Mzilikazi's saga may be used to argue that the police are emulating past practices of intimidation and detention without trial (similar to apartheid) to divert attention from the main issue. The main issue is that Mzilikazi has been arrested in his personal capacity because police have prima facie evidence of fraud and forgery which he must answer, as such, media cannot shield him if police can prove beyond reasonable doubt a case of accomplice liability. As the matter stands, police have already been found guilty in the court of public opinion while the prima facie evidence of fraud and forgery has been deliberately ignored and thrown out of the window, regardless of the new evidence of other actors in the case. Of course the case is not clear however we cannot accept any alteration of the truth by the media to champion a particular agenda. We need to hear both sides, as the matter is currently under trial and extends beyond the forged resignation letter. On those basis, cde VC, I do not think we should entertain any defence from the media at the expense of the findings of the court of law. I guarantee you, any posting would be based on what media have said and not what police have placed before the court. In the end, media's version of matter would dominate and so is the induced assumptions that Mzilikazi is being harassed by the police. Yes, the story won't go away because media took advantage of the situation in attempt to divert the public from the significance of debating the setting up of the tribunal as proposed by the ANC. I submit therefore that let the due process of the law takes its course. If indeed the whole police operation is nothing but intimidation, the truth will come out and police will be exposed. All of us we will have reasonable grounds to protest. Please note that I am not, in anyway, suggesting that we must not discuss the matter. But cautioning comrades not to bring hearsay arguments without careful consideration of the facts of the case. I trust you will find this in order. Remain Morgan Phaahla
"Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - Joe Slovo --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> Subject: [YCLSA Discussion] Mzilikazi wa Afrika (from "A Duhring Wanna BEE") To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 3:05 PM Actually, Cde Morgan, the business of "sub judice" is problematic. In this case, where Mzilikazi wa Afrika and his co-accused have been remanded until November, it could mean that people would refrain from discussing this matter for three months. I don't think there is any good reason why that should be the case. "Sub judice" means, literally, "under the judge". The only time a case is really "under the judge" is after all the evidence and the lawyers' arguments, and while the judge is considering the verdict. At that stage, for a week or two, there is very little use in speculating. But we are nowhere near that stage and there is nothing that says people may not comment. There is no "law of sub judice". It does not exist. It is a myth. The problem with this case is not "sub judice" but only that the situation is not clear, although it is getting clearer. Mzilikazi wa Afrika was shown on TV this evening saying that he thinks the whole police operation is nothing but intimidation. Some NGOs have taken a public view that it is intimidation. Zille has, of course, rushed to take advantage. I think that in the next few days it will become possible for political organisations to take an informed public stance. The story about the "fraudulent letter of resignation" is weak. How do you make fraud with a letter of resignation? It doesn't make sense. The story that it is police revenge on wa Afrika for exposing the apparently outrageous R500 million extravagance of moving police headquarters from one building to another similar building, is, on the other hand, all too plausible. Bheki Cele is the one who suddenly reintroduced military ranks into the police, over the objections of COSATU affiliate POPCRU. That was a rash, ill-considered act. Therefore we do know that Cele is capable of such acts. That's about as far as the case can be taken as of today, but not because of any "sub judice". Contrary to "sub judice", in my opinion we should encourage anybody with firm information to speak out without delay. No doubt the Sunday Times will do so by this time tomorrow. This story is not going to go away in a hurry, and we will not be able to sit on the fence forever. VC On 6 August 2010 15:31, morgan phaahla <[email protected]> wrote: I agree with cde VC, the matter is sub judice. Until such time there is a fair trial and ruling thereof, we shall study the verdict and comment on the matter or protest if need be. Morgan "Sometimes, if you wear suits for too long, it changes your ideology." - Joe Slovo --- On Fri, 8/6/10, Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> wrote: From: Dominic Tweedie <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [YCLSA Discussion] A Duhring Wanna BEE To: [email protected] Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 8:28 AM If you have good info please post, cde Trevor. If it proves to be a case of intimidation by the police, then we must protest, just as we protested against the "Hollywood" of the Scorpions (which the media loved at the time, as you may recall). VC On 6 August 2010 14:18, Trevor Kekana <[email protected]> wrote: Comrades, Is it my ignorance or selective reading that I did not read comments nor postings regarding Mzilikazi Wa Afrika’s arrest and intimidation on this particular forum? Regards Trevor Kekana -- Blog at: http://domza.blogspot.com/ Communist University web site at: http://amadlandawonye.wikispaces.com/ Subscribe for free e-mail updates at: http://groups.google.com/group/Communist-University/ Library of documents (CU "CD") at: http://cu.domza.net/ [email protected] -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] . -- You are subscribed. This footer can help you. Please POST your comments to [email protected] or reply to this message. You can visit the group WEB SITE at http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different delivery options, pages, files and membership. To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email [email protected] . You don't have to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put anything in the message part. All you have to do is to send an e-mail to this address (repeat): [email protected] .
