Interesting to note this squabble. Sive you know Mothusi is correct and the fact that you raise principle and ignore substance in what he raises defeats principle as principle in this instance cannot be an idea separate of the material conditions it is expressed under. We are to interrogate the conditions which inform the ideas, and fact is that money or patronage is dispensed instead of lobbying and bacause the rebuilding process is intended to be political without politics, it is a process defeated from inception, maybe just a formality.
One cannot just be reduced to if you cannot beat them join them. You are both my comrades whom I know love our movement, so I will advise you to fight the demon to the end with all it takes. One cannot be an observer to a historic blunder playing itself out as a symptom of a bigger problem and attend to it without unravelling the mystery. The problem exists and for now might just be a tragedy evolving and if we cannot fight it and ensure we eliminate it, the future looks bleak. Kind Regards Mangaliso Christian Khonza Aka Stalin Mobile: +27 83 617 5546 Fax: +27 86 618 9498 Email: [email protected] On 20 August 2014 14:54, Mothusi Tsitsing <[email protected]> wrote: > Sure leader. > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Sive Gumenge <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Leave them chief with their money... or you will be tempted to be like >> them. >> Bayeke bamoshe or umoshe nabo >> On 20 Aug 2014 2:48 PM, "Mothusi Tsitsing" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> You are not being harsh, actually to me you sound like some one who is >>> quite and always hide behind principle, myself i was part of rebuilding >>> process and i not speaking theory here but reality...so it does not mean >>> when i m saying ok you tought me some thing, honestly i was trying to avoid >>> you. Actually you were very quite, fact is money is at the center stage in >>> youth league congresses and this congress are won on the basis of who was >>> the highest bidder...Tender style, tenderprenuers arere- high jacking the >>> movement and you tell me to shut up....Aooowa mokone. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Sive Gumenge <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> thanks Chief. >>>> >>>> Don't think I am harsh on you. We must build a Youth League with no >>>> issues maarn. If people do those things, just make sure members are >>>> educated enough to fight that tendency. This process is not a process of >>>> Task Teams. It's a process of young people of our movement....all of >>>> them... >>>> >>>> Viva Cadre >>>> >>>> Madala >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Mothusi Tsitsing < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok leader!!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Sive Gumenge <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> My Brother, >>>>>> >>>>>> We don't talk rumour here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who was given money? Where was this money given? How much money was >>>>>> it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Haai comrades maarn let's rebuild the ANCYL without all these things. >>>>>> >>>>>> Recruit 100 young people to join, in the process of getting 100, >>>>>> frequently convene and discuss, how best to reach 100 and more. Every >>>>>> member pays his/her own joining fee. If you they don't have, organise a >>>>>> fundraiser and then ask RTT to come and launch and you and you get >>>>>> elected >>>>>> as Branch Chair. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's not spoil the forum of VC... >>>>>> >>>>>> Sive >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Mothusi Tsitsing < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sive fact of the matter is if you read balance of forces, name is >>>>>>> already on the wall like it or not, money is unleashed to counter >>>>>>> principle >>>>>>> and rebuilding process... money is running left right and center, >>>>>>> patronage >>>>>>> is the order of the day. So are you saying i must shut up and one other >>>>>>> thing i m failing to understand why is this topic not important in a >>>>>>> forum >>>>>>> of young people or maybe you are one of the beneficiary. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Sive Gumenge < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is not a squabbling forum broer. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We must be lead by NTT all of us. If you have issues, raise them in >>>>>>>> your branch and win it to take those views further till National >>>>>>>> Congress. >>>>>>>> Such things you can say there on facebook not here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>> On 20 Aug 2014 1:24 PM, "Msawenkosi Nikani" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That is why ANCYL is a School of the ANC, YCLSA of SACP exists and >>>>>>>>> that is the reason CU exists. That is contemporary, and should be >>>>>>>>> engaged >>>>>>>>> instead of dismissed. We are not all historians, this is where we >>>>>>>>> vent our >>>>>>>>> whatever even observations. Please be tolerant of us Sive. Actually >>>>>>>>> you are >>>>>>>>> a member of the RTT that you are suppose to interrogate the Comrade >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> facts instead of dismissing as if you are the one projected in his >>>>>>>>> observations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Each one Teach One and the process of learning never stops please. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Sive Gumenge < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chief, we have better things to read about and please give >>>>>>>>>> something worth to read maarn. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Madala >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Mothusi Tsitsing < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> YOUTH LEAGUE SOLD TO HIGHEST BIDDER >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can't speak independently after democratic centralism has >>>>>>>>>>> taken its course in ANCYL politics, one need to keep quite even >>>>>>>>>>> though you >>>>>>>>>>> know that money can buy everything... Revolutionary movement of >>>>>>>>>>> Young People >>>>>>>>>>> can be bought by highest bidder. Rebuilding process was just >>>>>>>>>>> contestation >>>>>>>>>>> of crass materialism and distortion of principle under guise of >>>>>>>>>>> revolutionary process. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just after appointment of Rebuilding task teams, some within >>>>>>>>>>> this tts received patronage through work, some permanently lived in >>>>>>>>>>> hotels >>>>>>>>>>> and given hired cars to defend personal gains of individuals within >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Progressive Youth Alliance, not principles, or what the >>>>>>>>>>> organisation stands >>>>>>>>>>> for. None of this leaders who are contesting for positions either >>>>>>>>>>> chairperson, secretary or any strategic position in our beloved >>>>>>>>>>> youth >>>>>>>>>>> league care about age for the future of youth league. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you can ask this leaders one by one how old are they... true >>>>>>>>>>> fact of the matter you're realize that future looks blink for >>>>>>>>>>> future >>>>>>>>>>> leadership of youth league and African National Congress. Most of >>>>>>>>>>> leader >>>>>>>>>>> who occupier position leadership recently in YL are one or two >>>>>>>>>>> years to >>>>>>>>>>> graduate from youth strata that's a fact. Money or what as leader >>>>>>>>>>> you need >>>>>>>>>>> to be conscience about the future of any constituency you're about >>>>>>>>>>> to lead >>>>>>>>>>> and is through leadership where we can affirm that Youth >>>>>>>>>>> organisation has >>>>>>>>>>> future. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed. This footer can help you. >>>>>>>>>>> Please POST your comments to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> or reply to this message. >>>>>>>>>>> You can visit the group WEB SITE at >>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/yclsa-eom-forum for different >>>>>>>>>>> delivery options, pages, files and membership. >>>>>>>>>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, please email >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] . You don't have >>>>>>>>>>> to put anything in the "Subject:" field. You don't have to put >>>>>>>>>>> anything in >>>>>>>>>>> the message part. 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