of course....I agree that's the main issue....the only guarantee of that is to make it an exclusive club of known, proven reliable members...I am not sure that's a good thing in many other ways though.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Zappa-List] vines - everyone PLEASE read.

Thank you for that. I actually meant something else though.
I was meaning to communicate that others besides myself are expressing some sort of desire to have vines work without some of the failures we currently experience.
Mr. Skull
I don't think anyone was pointing to you.....I think we know that the 'regulars' are reliable and we can cut them some slack when they are a little late responding. Its those where it stops dead are the pointee's...
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Zappa-List] vines - everyone PLEASE read.

Just for the record. Something of the comments you've responded to listed with my name below, are in fact either Jim's or someone else's. Maybe I'm misreading your tone, but I get the feeling of being singled out here. I may be mistaken.
Point being, I'm not the only one who *clearly* expressed some feeling of frustration and disappointment over frequent 'vine failure'. As you pointed out this group belongs to all of us, I reserve the right from here on in to decline anyone who failed to keep their end of the bargain on moving a vine along
(AKA "moving the project forward"). I will do this *ONLY* on vines I start, and it will be done off-list\privately. And with the condition that once they uphold their commitment, I will gladly add them to the end of any vine I begin.
That's my "final solution"
Mr. Skull
SOFA came up with this great new system that should make it easy to track the vines. Seems to me that with a good system like this we could easily determine who is killing the vines. For any one not familiar with SOFA's vine method I took the liberty of posting it here for easy access. http://www.regyptionstrut.com/vine.htm
Jim L
The system works - when it's employed. It's not universally employed. With a group like this, with people joining (and leaving) everyday, you gotta kinda hope that newbies read the FAQ that explains it all. Unfortunately, not all do - no, no, no, they're much to wise for that; FAQ's are for dummies... PEEEEEUUUUUW!
There are some "regulars" that still don't employ the system, ("I don't need a to read the FAQ; I've been posting for years". Double PEEEEEUUUUUW!), so it's not just new members... The biggest problem lately is members on digest that respond to an "old message", which - in effect - screws up the proper order of the vine. Hey, when in doubt, visit the yahoo page; it's the most up-to-date.
This aint rocket science, kids...
(Frankly, I think most are too lazy to bother - but, that's just me, speaking from experience,)
I had missed the removal of one's own name aspect of this vine system. But one question: If there are no consequences for those who might repeatedly "kill" a vine, then what good can it possibly do us to know who is responsible.
Mr. Skull
"Consequences" require a specific set of "actions" on someone's part - namely, moi. As sole owner/moderator of the Zappa list, that means I would have to (unbiasedly) track every vine that occurs here. Since we began the vine system, posts regarding them has become the major influx of mail.
I'm sorry, but I simply can't dedicate that much time to the vines. I still monitor every post made by a new member before it hits the boards; until a new member's "intent" has been made clear to me, none of you are bothered by extraneous poot. By doing this, I have eliminated all porn spam, chain mails, and other self-promotional crap that plagues yahoo groups. I believe my efforts have made the Zappa-List the friendliest, crap-free group going at yahoo. And that's as far as I care to take it, on the moderator end...
I think we know where the vines are and who kills them. The point is what action can be taken. You have to be seen to be fair, as we all have life difficulties from time to time. It shouldn't be a problem to let the list know your going to cause a delay...unless your pc dies...then what?
Mr. Skull
Here's the deal: The Zappa-List is your group. I only try to do what I think is best for the 700+ members we have. If the more active viners wish to have a greater deal of "control" (read: able to inflict consequences) of the workings of the group, I'm all for it and I welcome your private email(s) to that effect. {Don't send no boys, okay? Serious contributors only, please. And I gotta take a minute to thank JimL for holding down the fort for me in the past - you ROCK, dude!}
AFA what I recommend in the case of known (or suspected) "vine killers", if you all know who's killing off vines (Lord knows I have no clue), then simply move their name to the end of the list, or remove it altogether. If they respond and bitch, state your case in the most inoffensive manner possible {remember, personal attacks are simply not tolerated; use the facts as you see them, and keep your opinion to yourself}, and request an explanatory response.
Remember, it's your group!
It's unfortunate, but a fact, that some folks are just scum. I'm one of those that needs to smacked over the head repeatedly with proof before I believe it of anyone... It's one of the things that makes me lovable - that, and my tasteful, maroon hue.

For further Z-related fun, please visit http://www.thebignote.com or http://www.killuglyradio.com , thank you.


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