Hello All,

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Agreed. "I think, therefore I am" says nothing more than,
> "I think,therefore there are thoughts" - and as we know we are 
> more than the thoughts we think.

Clearly, we are more than the thoughts we think. We are also more than
the emotions we feel. We are more than our occupations and
recreations. We are more than our roles, whether self chosen or
assigned to us by culture. We are more than our bodies and drives;
hunger, thirst, reproduction, etc. We are much, much more than any of
this or any of the things we take for granted.

What is this 'more'? Where does it come from? Where is it located?

Where do you go when you sleep? Dream? Just the phenomena of dreaming
alone turns the whole discussion on its' head, and there are other
natural 'altered' states of consciousness as well. There is no
"thinking" going on during dreams - at least not in the classical
sense. We are not conscious when we dream, or at least we are in an
altered state of consciousness. The normal rules of space and time go
out the window; people fly, things disappear - or appear, things morph
and transform, shrink and grow, etc. Time is not linear, we visit the
future and the past in dreams, and often they jump around in time like
a Toni Morrison novel. And yet we experience it all as very real, at
least while the dream is going on.

Our "interior" space is every bit as vast as any ocean or "outer"
space. And it is much more like nature than machinery. Still this
inner space is largely unexplored. We have some rudimentary maps, but
as with all early maps, there are errors.

For me the unconscious is clearly the matrix, and all consciousness
arises from there, very much like volcanic islands arise from the sea.
When I say unconscious I mean everything that is unknown, both
internally and externally. No one knows what the unconscious is or
where it comes from. It's like atoms or subatomic particles - no one
can show it to you, but we can infer its' existence. It is the arms of
the dark mother Edgar wrote about. It is much more active in our lives
than we ever grasp. The ego (the "I", and ordinary waking
consciousness), has a tough job; it has to integrate everything from
the unconscious and the outside world. Destroy the ego and with it the
ability to integrate and cope is destroyed. Neither the conscious or
the unconscious are enough alone, it's only the unification of the two
that makes a whole human being, like the yin-yang symbol (%). It is
the end of duality that Bill writes about. It is the interaction and
integration between the two that makes us and the universe.

Margie (roloro1557)

FROM: Over the hills and far away. . .
Don't wobble. Yunmen


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