Edgar and Mark, I've always said Buddha Nature is the ultimate WYSIWYG!
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mark, > > I presume by that you mean we can never directly perceive reality as > it actually is. I agree with that. What we do directly perceive is > our cognitive constructs of reality. That is our direct experience. > > That is what Zen means when it says 'seeing illusion as illusion is > reality'. Illusion (our mental constructs of actual external reality) > is our only reality. It is all we can directly experience. > > Edgar > > > > On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Mark Hubey wrote: > > > It is pointless to create a dichotomy e.g. indirect perception vs > > direct perception when "direct perception" neither exists, nor > > can exist, nor does it have any meaning. > > > > That is the way to voodoo. > > > > it means that the concept of perception or cognition is not even > > understood. > > > > Edgar Owen wrote: > > > Mark, > > > > > > I'll let Andy respond since both of your questions refer to his > > words > > > and I'd express it somewhat differently. But yes, I have given > > > extensive thought to this subject for many years in case that > > comment > > > was addressed to me. > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Mark Hubey wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> andy_morleyuk wrote: > > >> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>, Edgar Owen > > >> <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > [....] > > >> > > > >> >> The error is quite simple, it is the false assumption that > > >> >> consciousness is self-consciousness, which I've debunked a > > number of > > >> >> times on this forum.... When one falsely assumes that > > consciousness > > >> >> is self consciousness, then one is stuck with infinite regress, > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > I'll buy that Edgar. In my own terms, just as we don't directly > > >> > experience other people, > > >> > > >> Perhaps you can explain to us what "direct experience" or "direct > > >> perception" means. > > >> > > >> > We don't interact directly with our own selves any more than > > >> > we interact directly with other selves. > > >> > > >> How would we "directly interact with ourselves"? > > >> > > >> Have you given much thought to what your sentences mean? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Regards, > > >> > > >> H.M. Hubey > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > H.M. Hubey > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
