Edgar and Mark,

I've always said Buddha Nature is the ultimate WYSIWYG!

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mark,
> 
> I presume by that you mean we can never directly perceive reality 
as  
> it actually is. I agree with that. What we do directly perceive is  
> our cognitive constructs of reality. That is our direct experience.
> 
> That is what Zen means when it says 'seeing illusion as illusion 
is  
> reality'. Illusion (our mental constructs of actual external 
reality)  
> is our only reality. It is all we can directly experience.
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Mark Hubey wrote:
> 
> > It is pointless to create a dichotomy e.g. indirect perception vs
> > direct perception when "direct perception" neither exists, nor
> > can exist, nor does it have any meaning.
> >
> > That is the way to voodoo.
> >
> > it means that the concept of perception or cognition is not even
> > understood.
> >
> > Edgar Owen wrote:
> > > Mark,
> > >
> > > I'll let Andy respond since both of your questions refer to 
his  
> > words
> > > and I'd express it somewhat differently. But yes, I have given
> > > extensive thought to this subject for many years in case that  
> > comment
> > > was addressed to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > Edgar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Mark Hubey wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> andy_morleyuk wrote:
> > >> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>, Edgar Owen
> > >> <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > [....]
> > >> >
> > >> >> The error is quite simple, it is the false assumption that
> > >> >> consciousness is self-consciousness, which I've debunked a  
> > number of
> > >> >> times on this forum.... When one falsely assumes that  
> > consciousness
> > >> >> is self consciousness, then one is stuck with infinite 
regress,
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> > I'll buy that Edgar. In my own terms, just as we don't 
directly
> > >> > experience other people,
> > >>
> > >> Perhaps you can explain to us what "direct experience" 
or "direct
> > >> perception" means.
> > >>
> > >> > We don't interact directly with our own selves any more than
> > >> > we interact directly with other selves.
> > >>
> > >> How would we "directly interact with ourselves"?
> > >>
> > >> Have you given much thought to what your sentences mean?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> H.M. Hubey
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -- 
> > Regards,
> >
> > H.M. Hubey
> >
> >
> >
>



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