Mark,

I presume by that you mean we can never directly perceive reality as it actually is. I agree with that. What we do directly perceive is our cognitive constructs of reality. That is our direct experience.


That is what Zen means when it says 'seeing illusion as illusion is reality'. Illusion (our mental constructs of actual external reality) is our only reality. It is all we can directly experience.

Edgar



On Dec 2, 2008, at 6:36 AM, Mark Hubey wrote:

It is pointless to create a dichotomy e.g. indirect perception vs
direct perception when "direct perception" neither exists, nor
can exist, nor does it have any meaning.

That is the way to voodoo.

it means that the concept of perception or cognition is not even
understood.

Edgar Owen wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I'll let Andy respond since both of your questions refer to his words
> and I'd express it somewhat differently. But yes, I have given
> extensive thought to this subject for many years in case that comment
> was addressed to me.
>
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Mark Hubey wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> andy_morleyuk wrote:
>> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> <mailto:evolutionary-psychology%40yahoogroups.com>, Edgar Owen
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > [....]
>> >
>> >> The error is quite simple, it is the false assumption that
>> >> consciousness is self-consciousness, which I've debunked a number of >> >> times on this forum.... When one falsely assumes that consciousness
>> >> is self consciousness, then one is stuck with infinite regress,
>> >>
>> >
>> > I'll buy that Edgar. In my own terms, just as we don't directly
>> > experience other people,
>>
>> Perhaps you can explain to us what "direct experience" or "direct
>> perception" means.
>>
>> > We don't interact directly with our own selves any more than
>> > we interact directly with other selves.
>>
>> How would we "directly interact with ourselves"?
>>
>> Have you given much thought to what your sentences mean?
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> H.M. Hubey
>>
>
>

--
Regards,

H.M. Hubey




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