Mayka,

Thanks for your post below.  I was surprised at the post prior to that.  It did 
seem out-of-character for you.  This must be because you have deep feelings 
about Basque people and their struggle for an autonomous region.  That is 
understandable.

As I said in a post I just sent, a knowledge of history is not necessary to 
know the current state of affairs.  I'm not arguing the history, although I did 
put down some historical facts several posts ago about Tibet.  I'm just saying 
that at this time Tibet does not have an independent country.  They are part of 
China.

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Maria Lopez
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 7:23 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] The Vasque Country

  
Hi Bill;
 
I don't like very much the way I addressed myself to you in previous post and 
would like to apologise for it.  I don't know why I talked to you in such an 
unkind way.  Sorry!.
 
I paste here a link with an small but reliable and very well explained summary 
history of the Vasque Country.  Perhaps I should have started by that in 
previous post.  
 
 
http://web.jet.es/thori/cultura.htm
 
Thank your for your always kind ways and most of it for the sharing in the 
forum.  
Mayka
 
 
 
--- On Sat, 11/9/10, Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com> wrote:

From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 11 September, 2010, 11:21
  
Bill;
 
Funny that an American person living in Thailand seems to know better than a 
Vasque Person, or Spanish about their own land.  I strongly advice you to read 
the History but read it by well educated Spanish historians who happen to be a 
lot of more neutral while talking about history in different worldwide 
countries and not by English Spoken historians who are not very good at it.  It 
seems as they find hard to face that in fact while they still were leaving 
their excrements behind in the castle corners Italy was in the renasciment.   
I'm saying this because they are not very good telling the history about any 
country and there are times that they manipulate the history too!.  However, do 
as you wish it doesn't affect me much if you keep with your incorrect history 
information or not.  I can only tell you that your information about the Vasque 
Country doesn't fit the real book of History of the Vasque Country.  Unless you 
are saying all this because for the seek of the argument.  
 
Mayka
 
 
 
--- On Sat, 11/9/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 11 September, 2010, 7:31
  
Mayka,
 
The Basque people occupy lands that overlap Spain and France, just as the 
Kurdish people occupy lands that overlap Iran and Turkey.  Neither the Basque 
or the Kurdish people have a country of their own. 
  
Tibet hasn’t been an independent country since they were conquered by the 
Mongols in the 1200’s.  China incorporated it as early as the 1700’s, and most 
recently punctuated their annexation in 1910.  In 1950 under The Seventeen 
Point Agreement and recognized by the UN, Tibet officially recognized China’s 
sovereignty.  In 1959 Tibet revolted unsuccessfully against China which 
resulted in the Dalai Lama fleeing Tibet.  The UN still recognized the 
Seventeen Point Agreement and China’s sovereignty over Tibet. 

  
Tibet is not an independent country, it’s part of China. 
  
You can dislike this, think in unfair and try to wish it away, but these are 
the facts. 
  
…Bill! 
  
  
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Maria Lopez
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:20 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
  
  
Bill:
 
Tibet is a Country.  China's invasion into Tibet and making from it a province 
are just politics.  The Vasque Country as the name itself says is a Country.  
Part of the Vasque Country is in France and part is in Spain.  If you would be 
going to the Vasque Country you will be seeing that is very different from 
Spain in all the ways. As a contrast , I was borne in the Vasque Country and I 
believe anyone has ever heard say that I wasn't from Spain.  I like Spain due 
to its rich cultural and paesage variety.  And I also like a united Spain with 
the Vasque Country included rather than separated.  Nonetheless the only place 
in the Iberic peninsula called Country is the Vasque Country and that is 
because is a Country split up between France and Spain.
 
Mayka
 

--- On Sat, 11/9/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 11 September, 2010, 3:49 
  
Makya,
  
I appreciate your observations. 
  
One correction:  Tibet is not a country.  It’s a province of China.  Much like 
the Basque region of Spain is a province of Spain – even though some of them 
don’t want to be. 
  
…Bill! 
  
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Maria Lopez
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:55 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
  
  
Yes, that was my impression too about tibetans being superstitious.  The TNH 
sangha in Edinburgh main leader was an ex tibetan nun full of that kind of 
superstitious tibetan stuff.  And her ego would resent if someone would point 
it out to her.  Nonetheless, I quite like the human warm and great sense of 
humour some original tibetans have.  This last July I met a Lama and he would 
explain the most ordinary daily things in such a simplicity, humour, 
spontaneous and natural way that he managed to transmit the dharma in a most 
skillful way.  I believe that in spite of cultiural superstition there are some 
very amazing profoundly awakened wise tibetans as well as in the other way 
round. In fact they are a whole country and not just an spare  sect kind of 
Thich Nhat Hanh propagation but a whole country. 
 
Mayka
 

--- On Fri, 10/9/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote:

From: billsm...@hhs1963.org <billsm...@hhs1963.org>
Subject: RE: [Zen] Other traditions
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 10 September, 2010, 14:47 
  
DP,
  
I myself don’t consider Tibetan ‘Buddhism’ actually Buddhist.  I should more 
rightfully be classified as ‘Lamaism’ – with maybe some Buddhist terminology.  
It’s chock full of superstitions, gods and spirits and a lot of mysticism (and 
not just ‘chi’), the most well known of which is their belief that the Dalai 
Lama which is their ‘God-King’, and whom they believe is a reincarnation of the 
former Dalai Lama clear back to an actual ‘god’ (of Compassion). 
  
And don’t get me started on the Dalai Lama…Bill! 
  
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
DP
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:49 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] Other traditions
  
  
I have a strange feeling towards other Buddhist traditions. While I find 
interesting messages in reading about Christianity or even Islam and Judaism 
(Hinduism I find too alien, although I love some of the imagery and mythology), 
I have a sort of block against other Buddhist traditions. I can admire somone 
like the The Dalai Lama, but I find Tibetan Buddhism too esoteric. I have had a 
few negative experiences on chat boards with other Buddhists in Theravada and 
Vajranaya traditions, where they even denigrated Zen. Does anyone else find 
that other Buddhist traditions seem odder to them than traditions outside 
Buddhism?


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