My word 'insults' is a general term, it can refer to past, present or future 
actions. I don't know your past actions. But if you insult me at present or in 
the future, I will excuse you.

--- On Sat, 27/11/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Mythology, Mind-states and Faith
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 27 November, 2010, 8:50 AM



If you point out to me the 'insults', I will rectify the situation right


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
> ED,
> You should be excused for making a couple of harmless insults, because
of your capability to make such a wonderful presentation.
> Anthony

> Bill,
> Assume that person A, who has never heard of Zen before, is made aware
> of the literature, history and mythology of Zen, and about experiences
> of 'Buddha Nature.'
> Person A goes to a zendo, learns how to practice zazen, and finds that
> it quietens his mind.
> However, he is skeptical about claims, hinted at in Zen literature,
> reinforced by Zen teachers and Zen students about Buddha Nature and
> Ubermenschen status of deceased Zen Masters - and even of live ones.
> This skepticism is no different than his skepticism of the specialness
> claimed by Jews, Christians and Muslims concerning their respective
> religions and selves.
> Person A says to himself: There may be something to this Zen thing, or
> maybe this is just mythology reinforced by interminable repetitions of
> unverified and unverifyiable opinions of Zen Masters and mesmerized
> students.
> Person A then says to himself: Of course I can spend decades doing
> with great rigor, arrive at an exquisite mind-state, and then be
> informed by roshi that I have realised kensho or even satori.
> But, person A also says to himself: All I really know is that I have
> experienced mind-states that are ineffable, and that it is my Master's
> opinion that they are kensho-satori states - and I have faith in him.
> But in Hindu and Buddhit literature and especially Theravada Buddhist
> literature, there dozens of blissful mind-states that have been
> identified, carefully defined, and classified.
> Therefore, person A faces the following reality: All he can assert is
> that he has experienced mind-state that his Teacher says are
> And, so what?
> What are the special characteristics of a person who has realized
> Nature?
> Of what value to humankind is his enlightenment, arrived at after the
> expenditure of enormous time and effort?
> --ED

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