Bill/JMJM, Interesting. Nevertheless, I don't see much in common between you two. For my part, I would say I am inclined more toward Bill, as his way is more simple and does not have to worry much on something external. Bill, I am willing to follow you to the letter, except for one thing. You say, 'we can take shikantaza up off the cushion and begin to integrate it into other activities in our daily life. To put that into practice, I need to keep my butt bent down while moving my legs, so that I can 'sit' and 'walk' at the same time. Anthony
--- On Wed, 26/1/11, Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> wrote: From: Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org> Subject: [Zen] Re: Differences in Practice To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 26 January, 2011, 8:08 AM JMJM, I have embedded my responses below describing the techniques and practices I was taught, and the expanations of them: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Thank you Bill. I have learned again. There is more in common in > practice as well. Now, let me share with you the reasons for some of > these "requirement". Then perhaps you can share with me what you were > taught as to why you were "asked" to do so. > > * Eyes closed completely to shut down all 5 aggregates, enables us > to enhance awareness internally. Eyes half-open to help to help resist falling asleep or day-dreaming. You're supposed to lower your gaze to a spot about 3 or 4 feet in front of you, or on a wall if you're facing a wall, and then 'de-focus' your eyes. It is not focusing on an object but just sitting with your eyes half-open. > * Walking depletes the Chi we were suppose to cultivate. Walking helps us physically by getting blood back into our legs to make sitting more comfortable. Also it serves as a transition so we can take shikantaza up off the cushion and begin to integrate it into other activities in our daily life. They also used chanting (seated and standing), bowing and daily chores for the same purpose. > * It takes on the average of 45 minutes to take us into another realm. Zendos I've attented sit periods of anywhere from 20 to 40 minutes, but they do usually sit 3 sets of these in a row broken up by a 5 minute kinhin (walking meditation which can also serve as a toliet break - and maybe nowdays to check your twitter messages). > * Curl the tongue to touch the roof of the mouth connects our Fire > and Water Channel for proper Chi flow. The slightly arched tongue touching the roof of the mouth with just a little vacuum was to reduce the flow of saliva to reduce the frequency of the need to swallow, clear your throat, etc... > * Sit flat on floor with half lotus increase our Chi flow by eight > times. Full lotus increases our Chi flow by 24 times. Sitting position is important to give you a solid base so you're not straining to sit (leg muscles/back muscles), and to open up your abdomen to promote 'belly-breathing'. > * Hara is Dan Tian in Chinese. It is for QiGong(Chi Cultivation) > practice, Chan focus on a spot about 3 fingers directly behind our > belly button, not below. That is where all our Chi were > generated. This spot is also supported by Traditional Chinese > Medicine (please google TCM). The 'hara' is located inside your belly, and I'm certain I was told it was also slightly below your navel. I was encouraged to move center of my 'consciousness' there rather than carry it high up in my head right behind my eyes like most Westerners do. I was told this would give me a better 'center' and 'balance'. Although it was not part of my Zen teaching I always assumed this was the same as 'chi' or 'ki' that martial artists use - for example directing all their focus into a striking hand or foot. > * Why is the cultivation of Chi critical in Sitting Chan, because > only by having Chi (energy) we can transform our body to be > healthier. When our Middle Channel of Chi flows smoothly, we can > more effectively enter Stillness to witness True Form. Physical health was not a big topic discussed in the zendo. I think it was implied that if you did zazen it would help you reduce stress, work around the zendo would help you excercise your body and the sparse vegetarian diet would be good for your body. But these things were not explicitly discussed. The definite emphasis was always sitting, sitting and more sitting - eithere shikantaza or koan study. After going through these my first obsrevation is that Japanese Zen Buddhism and Chan teach very much the same things, but explain the reasons for doing them differently. Chan's explanation are more mystical where Zen's explanations are more pragmatic. In saying this I am only making observations and not drawing any conclusion nor making any judgements. ...Bill! > > Thank you for your time, > JM > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > > > On 1/24/2011 11:23 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > Deborah and JMJM, > > > > I'll insert my comments about what I was taught in my Japanese Zen > > Buddhist training: > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - > > 覺妙精明 > > chan.jmjm@ wrote: > > > > > > Hi Deborah, > > > > > > Thank you for the question. I don't know Zen Buddhism enough to compare > > > in detail. In words, I seem to sense that Chan and Zen are rather > > > similar. The difference I noticed could be in the practice, such as > > > some of the following: > > > > > > Chan sit with eyes fully closed. Zen with half open. > > > Chan does not do walking. There is walking Zen. > > > Chan sit 45 to 60 minutes. Zen seems to be around 30 minutes. > > > Chan sit with tongue curled. There is no such mention in Zen. > > > > I was taught to arch my tongue slightly so that it touches the roof of > > my mouth, and create a slight vacuum in my mouth to keep it there. > > > > > Chan sit flat on floor. Zen uses cushions. > > > Chan demand a minimum of half lotus. Not sure about Zen. > > > > I was taught any position is okay as long as it thrusts your hips > > forward and keeps your back straight to free up your abdomen to > > promote belly-breathing, and is reasonable comfortable. Japanese do > > have a kneeling position that they teach sometimes using a little > > stool to kind of half-sit on. > > > > > > > Chan sit to focus on 10 chakras and 3 chi channels. Not sure about Zen. > > > > I was taught to focus my awareness on my 'hara', a spot on your belly > > about 3-finger widths below your navel. > > > > > Chan emphasizes enlightenment in this life time. Not sure about Zen. > > > > I wouldn't say Zen 'emphasizes' enlightenment in this lifetime, but it > > certainly acknowledges that as a possibility. > > > > > > > > On the other hand, the Chan that I practice, may not be the Chan other > > > Chinese lineage practice. > > > > > > Yet I would emphasize, that everyone of us, who is practicing, is a > > > blessed one, no matter which path we are on. Yet, the path that we are > > > on are driven by our own karma. > > > > I was taught something pretty similar, but I now recognize the concept > > of karma to be illusory. But that's just me - not Zen Buddhism proper. > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > > > http://www.heartchan.org > > > > > > > > > On 1/24/2011 7:59 PM, Deborah Mingins wrote: > > > > JMJM- can you tell us how Chan Buddhism and Zen Buddhism are > > > > different.....thanks....Deborah > > > > taomtnsage1@ <mailto:taomtnsage1@ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From:* Deborah Mingins taomtnsage1@ > > > > *To:* Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > > *Sent:* Mon, January 24, 2011 3:58:42 PM > > > > *Subject:* Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist? > > > > > > > > To JMJM- You say that true practice begins after awakening. What is > > > > this true practice in Chan ie not Chan Buddhism > > > > .taomtnsage1@ <mailto:.taomtnsage1@ > > >
