Bill;
 
Yes in many Eastern Countries Buddhism is regarded as a religion.  Still there 
are Buddhist traditions with the description given by Steve. 
 
Mayka

--- On Thu, 31/3/11, Bill! <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Bill! <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Why bother with Zazen? Better Orgyhouse
To: [email protected]
Date: Thursday, 31 March, 2011, 2:42


  



Steve,

I agree with your reply to my post below.

I will also extend it to say that most (or at least a large number of) 
Buddhists do not consider Zen Buddhism as a ligitimate expression of Buddhism 
and consider it cult. I say this after talking with numerous Buddhists 
(including Buddhist clergy) in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Laos, and Vietnam.

...Bill! 

--- In [email protected], "SteveW" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > 
> > I fundamentally disagree.
> > 
> > Buddhism, as well as Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, and all other religions I 
> > know about are based on the essense of zen. They are all, including 
> > Buddhism, just layers that have been built up around zen and serve to 
> > occlude the essense of zen to varying extents. I will say that Buddhism has 
> > the least occluding layers of the religions I have read about, but it still 
> > has a lot.
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> Hi Bill! In my opinion, there are two aspects to the human phenomenon of 
> religion. One aspect is the evolved religios which binds society together in 
> a shared identity. This is just an evolved trait that is useful from the 
> view-point of group selection. The other aspect is the awakened insight into 
> Suchness. But some religions as they exist now are more effective vehicles 
> for encouraging awakened insight into Suchness than others. Within each of 
> the Big Three Abrahamic traditions, there have arisen minority mystical 
> movements that are a spontaneous expression of Enlightened Mind, but they 
> have always been regarded as heretical. Even the most literal-minded Pureland 
> Buddhist realizes that the ultimate goal is awakening. They just want to go 
> to Buddhist Heaven where they imagine that awakening will be easier. But they 
> still understand that ultimately it is more than just going to Heaven. And 
> so, as you yourself note, Buddhism has the least occluding
 layers. The average Christian would not regard Meister Eckhart as being a real 
Christian.
> Steve
>






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