I couldn't agree more, it is about practice . . . experience. zendervish
--- In [email protected], Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.jmjm@...> wrote: > > Hi Siskaï¼ > > Theory is not important. I skip classes too. Theory is for the mind. > Practice is the key. :-) > > Heart is a mere symbolic representation of our overall spiritual well > being. Heart represents the collective spirit of every cell and organ > in our body. Each of which is embedded with the same characteristics of > the universe, which is called Buddha Nature by Buddhist. > > Your witness is also my witness. Compassion and wisdom are always in > every cell of ours. It is our mind which often questions its validity... > > :-) > > Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > http://www.chan-meditation.org > Chan in everyday life... > http://www.chanliving.org > To be enlightened in this life... > http://www.heartchan.org > To save our world... > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > On 9/5/2011 5:23 PM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > > > Hello JM, > > > > In terms of theoretical dhamma, I came from Theravada background. > > There, we speak of nama rupa, ie. the panca khanda. I cannot relate > > these terms to 'mind' or 'heart' you were saying. Moreover the > > different types of consciousness, I don't really understand this. I > > suppose the Abidhamma talks about this a lot, but I always skip this > > part in dhamma classes (naughty me) because I don't feel it helps me > > in my practice. > > > > > > > In order words, only when our mind is completely at rest, then > > compassion and wisdom rises from our heart, or spirit if you prefer > > > > I'd say compassion and wisdom don't rise from anything. They are there > > just like that, not specific to anyone or anything. > > > > Siska > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.jmjm@...> > > *Sender: * [email protected] > > *Date: *Mon, 05 Sep 2011 08:50:24 -0700 > > *To: *<[email protected]> > > *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > > *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Fwd: Re: [Zen Living] Supreme Vehicle > > > > Hello Siska, > > > > Excellent inner observation. Thank you. > > > > We say in our school, "let us not practice with our mind but with our > > heart." > > > > In order words, only when our mind is completely at rest, then > > compassion and wisdom rises from our heart, or spirit if you prefer. > > > > In the traditional Buddhist teaching, our mind is the seventh > > consciousness, and our subconsciousness is the eighth. We will be > > free only when we reach the ninth, Amala consciousness. Otherwise we > > are still being bombarded with our mind and subconsciousness. > > > > Any "judgment" of our notions, regardless of the final label is still > > functioning in the conscious domain and not in the spiritual domain. > > > > Let me know your comment. > > jm > > > > Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > > http://www.chan-meditation.org > > Chan in everyday life... > > http://www.chanliving.org > > To be enlightened in this life... > > http://www.heartchan.org > > To save our world... > > http://www.universal-oneness.org > > > > > > On 9/5/2011 2:43 AM, siska_cen@... wrote: > >> > >> Hi JM, > >> > >> Thanks for looking into this. > >> > >> > This is why we must step off the top of that hunded foot pole of > >> emptiness into the world of an awakened everyday. > >> > >> I believe distinction between the two is unnecessary. What is called > >> awakened everyday is emptiness itself. I fully agree that we are > >> subject to conventions and from time to time we need conventions. > >> Unfortunately, identifying certain things as 'emptiness' or > >> 'non-duality', while others as 'everyday world' or 'duality' is a > >> duality view itself. > >> > >> > In truth, Two and One are in support of one another. > >> > >> Here it seems that Rev Harvey makes distinction between Two and One. > >> Are they really different at all? > >> > >> > Are we present? Are we kind? Do we practice with a mindful heart? > >> > >> It has been a while since I began questioning this practice of > >> questioning. I used to remind myself whether I was present, whether I > >> have been kind today, whether I was mindful. At one point, I > >> discovered that whatever answers I had for those questions are > >> doubtful for words are ambiguous and I no longer know what being kind > >> or mindful really means anymore beyond their conventional use. > >> > >> Siska > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.jmjm@...> > >> *Sender: * [email protected] > >> *Date: *Sun, 04 Sep 2011 10:09:48 -0700 > >> *To: *<[email protected]> > >> *ReplyTo: * [email protected] > >> *Subject: *[Zen] Fwd: Re: [Zen Living] Supreme Vehicle > >> > >> Hello Siska, > >> > >> Below is a reply from Rev. Harvey in terminologies of Zen. Perhaps > >> it will clarify some of the questions in your mind? > >> > >> jm > >> > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> > >> Aha, Sensei, > >> > >> Indeed. It is transformation instead of elimination. > >> > >> The key of Chan practice lies in the way of "challenging & teaching & > >> awaken" without ourselves. Too often we impose "our practice" onto > >> others. In such case, we still are attached to dharma. > >> > >> I just loved your English. So much more depth in every word. As > >> always, I found one new words I needed to look up from dictionary. > >> > >> Thank you for your sharing. jm > >> > >> On 9/4/2011 6:01 AM, Harvey Daiho Hilbert wrote: > >> > >>> With respect to all, > >>> Good Morning JMJM, > >>> Thank you for the correction as regards your Order's hierarchy, > >>> although I will continue to see you as a Master. > >>> It is true that to see oneself as one with everything, there is a > >>> danger we will fall into a sort of quietism. This is why we must > >>> step off the top of that hunded foot pole of emptiness into the > >>> world of an awakened everyday. > >>> In Zen we step back from that pole in order to work for the freedom > >>> of all beings. We live in a world of two truths, the Universe is > >>> One and the Universe is not one. Realizing the Vast Impermenance of > >>> all things does not negate all things. > >>> Engaged practice, then, is a practice of going out into the world of > >>> the relative with an Absolute Mind. How we walk, talk, eat, and > >>> touch become teachers to those around us. Are we present? Are we > >>> kind? Do we practice with a mindful heart? These are profound, but > >>> beginning beginning steps, steps of a first order. A second order > >>> is more foundational. We practice to address the conditions within > >>> which duality is permitted to emerge. Notions of social > >>> stratification, distributive justice, and prejudice must be > >>> addressed directly, challenged, and transformed. > >>> I say /transformed/ rather than /eliminated/ because these causes of > >>> duality function for purposes that are usually righteous. The > >>> purposes of stratifacation, unequal distribution of goods and > >>> services, and prejudice often have more to do with fear and the > >>> consequent presumed need for self preservation than anything about > >>> the targets of these efforts. The goal may be righteous, but the > >>> method is problematic. > >>> When people have a "self" and fear the loss of things that support > >>> that "self" they will do all manner of things to protect it. So, our > >>> practice (for ourselves, as well as for others) is to cut through > >>> the delusion of a self, show there is no need to protect a > >>> nonexistant self, and find ways to support such a transformative > >>> process. Our methods include challenging, teaching, and supporting > >>> people as they are in the everyday world. Bearing witness for peace, > >>> and against hunger and violence are beginning steps, but key steps. > >>> In truth, Two and One are in support of one another. When we can > >>> live with such an open eye, we know we have nothing to fear. > >>> Without fear, the bodhisattva is free to engage the universe. > >>> Be well > >>> /Rev. //Daiho Hilbert, //abbot/ > >>> /OCMZ / > >>> > >>> *From:* Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ <chan.jmjm@...> > >>> *To:* [email protected]; [email protected]; > >>> [email protected]; [email protected] > >>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 3, 2011 11:08 AM > >>> *Subject:* [Zen Living] Supreme Vehicle > >>> > >>> Good morning Sensei, > >>> > >>> Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I am just a > >>> practitioner of Chan and not a master. A master in our school means > >>> someone who is enlightened and has received "Buddha Heart Imprint", > >>> while I have neither. Since Zen does recognize the Mahayana > >>> practice, then please let me share some of the discussions we had > >>> recently in our school.... > >>> > >>> As we know, Hinayana is often called the Small Vehicle and Mahayana > >>> is the Great Vehicle. And in China, the Chan is called the Supreme > >>> Vehicle. It means that Chan could free everyone. > >>> > >>> It is true, when others are enlightened, we are enlightened. The > >>> danger of this realization is the rationalization that we only need > >>> to work on ourselves. If so, then we are only practicing Hinayana. > >>> We did not "do" the circular track of Chan. > >>> > >>> The Mahayana practice is a practice, only when we leave our lotus > >>> and step into the mud, could we than detach ourselves from the > >>> limitation of our practice and our dharma. In other words, as we > >>> focus on the difficulty in freeing others, could we then realize how > >>> limited we are in wisdom and energy in resolving their karmic > >>> hindrance. Only then we could be motivated to continuously > >>> surpassing our habitual practice, form and formless. In turn to > >>> realize that "Dharma is not dharma. No dharma is dharma." > >>> > >>> Then we would know dharma is in every encounter. It is up to us to > >>> be one with it. Only then we are liberated from the rationalization > >>> of our mind and awaken to the fact that the One of Chan is the ALL. > >>> This realization occurs when we journey midway into the freeing of > >>> each one, as a Supreme Vehicle. > >>> > >>> Too often we quit by rationalizing to ourselves that this practice > >>> is not for everyone. Or the time is not right, or whatever excuses > >>> we place upon our practice. If so, we have trapped ourselves into > >>> believing that our current practice is the only path. The practice > >>> of Supreme Vehicle is every practice in each moment, in each > >>> encounter, without self, without other, without dharma, without > >>> form, without notion, etc. > >>> > >>> To free all beings is not to impose "our" practice upon them, but > >>> rather let them awaken from within. The only way we could > >>> accomplish that is to speak in their language in their mindset and > >>> help them to resolve whatever there needs to be resolve in > >>> resources, mindset or life force. In other words, we needed to be > >>> them and undertake their karma. Thus the mud is the lotus and lotus > >>> is the mud and they both grow in tandem. > >>> > >>> To phrase it in beautiful labels, Mahayana is the journey for > >>> Bodhisattva, Supreme Vehicle is the journey for Buddha, who is the > >>> one and all and us and everyone. > >>> > >>> Thank you all for your attention, > >>> JMJM > >>> Head Teacher > >>> Order Of Chan > >>> Learn the Basics of Chan Meditation... > >>> http://www.chan-meditation.org <http://www.chan-meditation.org/> > >>> Chan in everyday life... > >>> http://www.chanliving.org <http://www.chanliving.org/> > >>> To be enlightened in this life... > >>> http://www.heartchan.org <http://www.heartchan.org/> > >>> To save our world... > >>> http://www.universal-oneness.org <http://www.universal-oneness.org/> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 9/1/2011 9:49 PM, Harvey Daiho Hilbert wrote: > >>>> With palms together, > >>>> Good Evening Everyone, > >>>> On the Zen Living list, Châan Master Jue Miao Jing Ming , asked me > >>>> a question the other day. âDear Sensei, Do you consider Zen a > >>>> Mahayana practice? If so, what does Mahayana actually do?â > >>>> While Zen is within the Mahayana tradition, it is not a Mahayana > >>>> practice as I understand it.Student Rev. Shoji and I were > >>>> discussing this question today and Rev. Shoji brought up an > >>>> interesting distinction.He argued that Mahayana Buddhists aim at > >>>> the Bodhisattva ideal to free all beings before they, themselves, > >>>> enter nirvana.He points out that from a Zen point of view, self and > >>>> other are one, therefore there is no one, but oneself, to free. > >>>> Zen Master Seung Sahn argues in his Compass, that both Theravadan > >>>> and Mahayane traditions have âroads,â but that Zen has not only no > >>>> road, but no map, as well.The practice is practice realization as > >>>> one.Path and destination are not two. > >>>> These beg the question, however, âWhat does Mahayana actually do?â > >>>> Mahayana does nothing.Mahayana is just a word.And we can see from > >>>> the question that such things as words and concepts can create a > >>>> hindrance.We could ask a better question, âWhat is Mahayana > >>>> /practice /and what does it do?â The aim of the practice is to free > >>>> beings, but how? > >>>> Again, Master Sahn offers the Six Paramitas as âpractice > >>>> guides.âThey are rather like the manifest value in the nexus > >>>> between idea and behavior, rather like the term âQualityâ as used > >>>> in Pirsigâs âZen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.â A > >>>> Mahayana > >>>> practitioner practices to make manifest the six aspects of our true > >>>> nature in the hope that to do so will free suffering beings. > >>>> A Zen practitioner, however realizes practice and life are one, > >>>> that everything is already free, perfect as it is, but that we jail > >>>> ourselves with our thoughts.A Zen practitioner notices and ceases > >>>> all grasping: no attachment to ideas, desires, things, feelings, etc. > >>>> A Zen practitioner is free and easy in the everyday world.His mind > >>>> is free and his heart limitless.He recognizes all beings are > >>>> likewise like this. > >>>> Be well. > >>>> /Rev. //Daiho Hilbert, //abbot/ > >>>> /OCMZ / > >>> > >>> > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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