Neutral Milk,

I do not mind if you rearrange or even re-write anything I post as long as you 
note that you're doing so.

Your response is clear, but if Buddhism and zen are the same, why do the vast 
majority (I'd guess 90%) of Buddhists in the world do not believe zen is a 
legitimate expression of Buddhism or think of it as a cult?

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Neutral Milk <neutralm@...> wrote:
>
> On 7/29/05, Bill Smart <Bill@...> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I will have to rearrange the order of Bill's questions, for the
> purpose of my presentation. I hope Bill won't mind?
>  
> > What is Buddhism?
> 
> If you'd allow me, I would like to use a metaphor as the answer to
> this question. Buddhism, to me, is the following situation: imagine a
> person who has a thorn stuck in his eyeball. It hurts like hell. The
> more that person tries to do something about that thorn, the worse it
> gets. Rubbing his eye only manages to aggravate it even more. Same is
> with him trying to take the thorn out with his fingers.
> 
> Along comes the Master Physician, Shakyamuni Buddha, who explains to
> the aggravated person that the only way to get the thorn out is to use
> another thorn. At first, the person is incredulous -- how can the
> problem be solved by using the same means that created the problem in
> the first place?
> 
> Eventually, the suffering individual may succumb, and agree to use
> another thorn to get the offending thorn out. So he does that, takes
> the thorn out, and feels tremendous relief while holding the little
> bugger in his hand and then tossing it aside.
> 
> However, soon afterwards, the 'liberated' person realizes that the
> horrendous pain has returned, and this time with a vengeance. How can
> that be? The thorn has definitelly been taken out of the eyeball, so
> why is he still squirming in pain?
> 
> It's very simple, actually -- yes, the original thorn has been
> removed, but now the new one, the 'expedient mean' thorn ended up in
> the same spot. And it now hurts even more.
> 
> Buddhism is a teaching/practice that prescribes how to take the thorn
> out with another thorn, without leaving the new thorn inside the
> wound. In other words, it's a teaching on how to build a raft to cross
> the ocean of birth and death, and then how to abandon the raft and
> walk freely about.
> 
> > What is Zen?
> 
> Zen is a special discipline deeply imbedded inside the Buddhist
> teaching (which was described above), whereby the practitioner is
> brought to realize that there is no such thing, nor could there ever
> be such thing as a thorn, an eye, the pain, an attempt to liberate
> oneself from pain, the teaching, the expedient means,etc.
> 
> > What are the differences between Zen and Buddhism?
> 
> There are no differences between the two.
> 
> > What is the relationship between Zen and Buddhism?
> 
> It's like asking: "what is the relationship between Zen and Zen" or
> "what is the relationship between Buddhism and Buddhism". It's the
> relationship of sameness and equality (i.e. samata in Sanskrit).
>




------------------------------------

Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    [email protected] 
    [email protected]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Reply via email to