Interesting.
I found that if I could catch the thought as it arose I then knew the impulse 
that drove it and this was the begining of the reflective awareness.

--- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@...> wrote:
>
> Rewrisk, a coincidence indeed, I as well had asthma throughout my childhood 
> and teens.  Luckily, that has subsided over the years (no thanks to many 
> hair-brained years of cigarettes, which I have only recently quit).  But, 
> anyway, my technique.  I do place emphasis on just focusing on my breathing, 
> yet I am still obviously very aware of the thoughts, ideas, plans, 
> preferences, etc that all come and go as i meditate.  Sometimes while I sit 
> Zazen my mind and body are very calm, at other times I am anxious and have a 
> very busy mind.  Regardless of what mood or state I find my mind and body, I 
> continue to sit until the predetermined time has been reached and it is time 
> to get up.  So, while I sit, my aim is to just look at the wall and focus on 
> breath.  Then I catch myself in thought, my practice is to just return to the 
> present.  Now, precisely this is what I am working on currently: as I catch 
> myself in thought, I try not to think the words "just come back," rather, I 
> am trying to become more proficient in just "doing" the "mental action" of 
> "just coming back" without thinking it in words.  I have been noticing that 
> over the last couple of weeks with some determination I am becoming better at 
> this.  I also appreciate and value the this "mirrored reflection" ability of 
> awareness, it is very subtle.  To be able to just let the thoughts come and 
> go on their own accord without pushing them away forcibly or making effort to 
> keep them, this is a practice that i feel requires a substantial amount of 
> training.  But, like I said earlier, what I am mainly working on right now is 
> trying not to think phrases like "just come back," instead to simply... come 
> back.
> 
> --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote:
> >
> > Matt.
> > I was asthmatic as a child and as a young man found attempting to 
> > concentrate on my breathing had rather unpleasant consequences.
> > I tried many meditative techniques and finally found that simply watching 
> > what occured in my mind was most effective. I had heard of reflective 
> > meditation and while the suggested technique didn't do it for me the idea 
> > of reflection of holding a mirror to my mind, a mirror in which to watch 
> > what occurred in it turned out to be very effective and I progressed quite 
> > quickly once I learnt to. As I progressed I found myself tempted to 
> > interfere with what I saw occuring, this slowed my progress untill I began 
> > to realise I was not seeing everything and later as I progressed further 
> > the temptation to interfere resulted in unpleasant effects so that I 
> > quickly ceased to fall to such temptation. Eventually I found I was able to 
> > induce those states that other meditative techniques suggested, through 
> > reflective awareness.
> > 
> > So apart from indulging myself in the above self expression you can see how 
> > one technique can lead to another. You say you know from practising 
> > meditation on your breath that through it you can also enter a state of 
> > mental stillness. So no effort goes without result there is only what you 
> > are yet to discover. To me it sounds forced and the force of habit but you 
> > must work atleast to some degree with your own nature I do not mean to 
> > insult. To myself my technique sounds vain and self indulgent and it is. 
> > But has worked for me quite well.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Rewrisk, thank you for your reply.  Your considerate words are 
> > > encouraging and wise.  As far as my technique, I am fortunate enough to 
> > > live fairly close by to a Zen meditation center of the Soto lineage.  So, 
> > > at home and at the center in my Zazen, the only object of my meditation 
> > > is the breath.  I have become quite familiar with several walls and love 
> > > them dearly. :)  Well, it is actually time to sit for the night, so 
> > > again, thank you, and have a pleasant evening/day.
> > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > > I misread your; 'the "great matter of birth and death."'
> > > > I am heartened that you do not believe in reincarnation or life after 
> > > > death.
> > > > I apologise to you, clearly I mistook my audience.
> > > > 
> > > > You say 'I should hope I don't ever feel that I have reached a "place" 
> > > > in my understanding'. And I am minded that I have found many a "place" 
> > > > in my understanding but none I could rest on my laurels in. I took rest 
> > > > as I had to and while I may have tried to superimpose meaning on that I 
> > > > found meaning despite doing so.
> > > > 
> > > > If you should wish to discuss meditative technique?
> > > > I myself have found a reflective awareness the most usefull.
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > With all respect to you, rewisk, you have made a lot of assumptions 
> > > > > about me without knowing me.  I do not believe in reincarnation, or 
> > > > > life after death.  These are things I cannot know, because I have not 
> > > > > died.  And as far as how long it "should" take for a practitioner to 
> > > > > "attain" anything, who is to say?  I should hope I don't ever feel 
> > > > > that I have reached a "place" in my understanding, I wish to just 
> > > > > experience my life in the present moment with the growing of my 
> > > > > understanding of Emptiness.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In [email protected], "rewrisk" <rewrisk@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry to have to tell you this Matt but you will not survive your 
> > > > > > death.
> > > > > > Some people seem to think that life could only be fair if we are 
> > > > > > reincarnated but they fail to recognise that if life was fair you 
> > > > > > would have to pay for your advantages and not just your sins. If 
> > > > > > life is fair then it can't be a gift.
> > > > > > Six years huh?
> > > > > > It only took me three and less than a year after I got serious 
> > > > > > about it. I do not say this to boast only I wonder about you 
> > > > > > meditative technique? I suppose if I include the time of my initial 
> > > > > > curiosity maybe four or so.
> > > > > > I felt great need though, likely this is the difference.
> > > > > > Still I would expect any person who regularly practised an 
> > > > > > effective form of meditation to atleast have attained a sense of 
> > > > > > thier personal illusion.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mattmodrow" <fourforsure@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Myself, I do not feel that it is a matter of salvation.  The 
> > > > > > > matter, is the "great matter of birth and death."  One of my 
> > > > > > > favorite authors, Stephen Batchelor, in his book -Alone with 
> > > > > > > others- says that the "aim" is for "the optimum mode of being."  
> > > > > > > To me what this says is, that the aim of life would be living in 
> > > > > > > awareness, as you grow and age through the years, hopefully you 
> > > > > > > will become wiser.  I recently had Dokusan with one of my 
> > > > > > > teachers, and she said that Zen practice and enlightenment is 
> > > > > > > kind of like in those old cartoons, when someone is about to 
> > > > > > > receive a gift and they are told NOT to look.  In the cartoons, 
> > > > > > > we always see them peeking with one eye at the gift before it is 
> > > > > > > given to them.  So, I have been practicing since 2006, I have 
> > > > > > > never had an "awakening experience," and that is fine with me.  
> > > > > > > Zazen has taught me many things, and I know not to "peek," or in 
> > > > > > > other words,  to conceptualize what I think enlightenment is and 
> > > > > > > then strive for it.  Rather, I just live my daily life, always, 
> > > > > > > constantly coming back to direct experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>




------------------------------------

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